Welcome to another engaging episode of the Celebrant Talk Show, where we explore the diverse journeys of newly authorised celebrants in Australia. Today, I, Josh Withers, have the pleasure of hosting Ryan Enright from Paper Hearts, a Melbourne-based wedding musician who has recently embarked on a new journey as a celebrant.

In this episode, Ryan shares his unique transition from being a musician to becoming a celebrant – a decision influenced by the COVID-19 pandemic and the desire to up-skill during challenging times. We delve into the realities of the Cert IV in Celebrancy program, discussing its intensity and thoroughness, which drew Ryan to choose the Celebrant Institute for his studies.

Throughout our conversation, Ryan opens up about the challenges and triumphs of his journey – balancing his studies with significant life events like welcoming a child and buying a house. He reflects on his first wedding ceremony as a celebrant and offers insights into how his extensive experience as a musician attending numerous ceremonies has influenced his celebrant style.

We also venture into the technicalities and logistics of combining music and celebrancy in ceremonies, discussing sound systems and how Ryan plans to integrate his skills as a musician into his celebrant services. This episode is not just about Ryan’s story but also a deep dive into the nuances of celebrancy and the additional roles celebrants play in Australian weddings, compared to other countries.

Whether you’re an aspiring celebrant, a seasoned professional, or simply interested in the world of weddings, this episode offers valuable insights, laughs, and a real-life perspective on the evolving role of a celebrant in today’s world. Join us for this inspiring and informative session on the Celebrant Talk Show, your go-to podcast for all things celebrancy.

 

Transcript:

Josh
– My name is Josh Withers. I’m the host for today’s episode of the Celebrant Talk Show. Welcome to it. We’re in the middle of a series where we’re talking to, interviewing new celebrants. Celebrants that have done the Certiform Celebrancy and they’ve become celebrants in Australia. They are authorised and ready to party and Ryan is one of those and I think his story will be a blessing to you. If you wanna hear other episodes of this podcast, celebrant.fm has all the links and also you can listen to other episodes there and find them on to your favourite podcast player. And if you wanna know more about the Cert4 and our membership program for celebrants, the website is celebrant.institute.

Ryan
(upbeat music) – My name’s Ryan. I’m in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia and I became a celebrant at the start of this year officially. And yes, I’ve done one wedding so far.

Josh
– In 2023.

Ryan
– Yes, it’s my time to shine.

Josh
(laughing) – It’s funny, just a really weird tangent to start on. Obviously you just start when you start. There’s all these great inspirational quotes about the best time to start was yesterday, the second best time to start was today. And that’s all very, very, very true. But I’ve got this weird thing where I just, I like nice dates. And so I became a celebrant in 2009 and I look back like, I wish it was 2010. 2010 is like, it’s just a nice, it’s a round year.

Ryan
– You can get the number.

Josh
– Yeah, like my wife was born in 1990. And so it’s really like, how old are you? Like, oh, well, she’s just the year at 10. (laughing) And so I feel about like odd numbers, like 23, 21, 25, let’s see, 25 is a good year to start. 23 and my year 2009. I don’t like the years, you know? So maybe you should have waited a year, but you know, maybe you should have. (laughing)

Ryan
– Too much maths involved.

Josh
– Too much maths. That’s my problem. Always mathematising things. Like talking about maths, what maths did you do in your brain to figure that you should be a celebrant? Everyone’s got a different story. What’s yours?

Ryan
– Excellent segue. Well, my story is COVID. So I’m primarily a musician and obviously during COVID times, there wasn’t a whole lot of work for us, especially in Melbourne. So I thought it would be a great idea to, you know, upskill during that time and study to become a celebrant, which was something that was kind of always, you know, on the radar in the back of my mind, just floating around as an idea. And I kind of just saw that time as, yeah, a good opportunity to do that.

Josh
– And how did that work out for you? Was the, did it bear fruit as you had hoped?

Ryan
– Well, yes and no. So it took me longer than I anticipated. And this is probably eating into some of your next few questions, but you know, it is, yeah, it’s quite an intense and long undertaking. It’s very thorough, which, you know, when I was assessing the various providers that offered the course is part of the reason I chose to study with you guys was because I wanted it to be thorough and I wanted to come out of it, you know, being a decent celebrant, hopefully, or at least, you know, having the tools I need to start that journey. But yeah, I also had another child during that time and, you know, bouncing in and out of lockdown. Yeah, bought a house, like did just lots of, you know, things that it just, when it rains, it pours, you know? So yeah, when I started the course, I had all this free time and then as the course progressed, I suddenly had, you know, very little free time and it took me a little bit longer than I had originally intended. But yeah, I persevered and got there in the end, which I’m, yeah, really happy about.

Josh
– Great. It is more than many people expect. I feel like the biggest disservice to the entire celebrancy/officiant/people that marry people business is Joey from “Friends” ’cause on TV in the ’90s, he just did a thing and became a minister and married people. And it’s just, it kind of is the case like that in America, but it very much isn’t that the case in Australia. It’s, you know, I’m lucky to speak to celebrants and officiants from around the world and they’re always amazed by what the Australian celebrant has on their plate. ‘Cause many of them find it overwhelming and have to, yeah, like their whole business is based on just doing the speaking bit, like obviously, and preparing for the speaking bit and the speaking bit. But the Australian celebrant has a lot more on their plate, you know?

Ryan
– Yes.

Josh
– As we can spend the next five hours talking about. The legal things can sink a whole bit. But yeah, so I’m glad you pushed through. That’s really awesome.

Ryan
– Yeah, yeah. And it was, you know, I guess one of the good things about the course is you can have a few attempts at the assignments as well. So I definitely used those. I just did the best I could with my first attempt, send it through, get some feedback and then go from there. That was kind of my approach to it.

Josh
– And honestly, that’s really smart. I’ve studied a little bit and I’m not that smart. I still kind of have that high school mentality of you gotta do it right. And then because, not that the high school mentality is you gotta do it right, but you gotta do it right. And then if you don’t do it right enough, then you fail and you suck and you should burn in hell. Whereas, you know, I guess the VET system or just the certificate four system is that you’re not yet competent, not yet competent, not yet competent, boom, you’re competent. Cool, yeah, we got there. Which is far more, I don’t know, just human and nice. (laughs)

Ryan
– Yeah, totally. Yeah, no, I appreciated that. (laughs)

Josh
– You obviously did the thing, you did the course and you took that through the application process. You get that letter saying that you’re legit, you’re ready to go. Did you feel more game ready than maybe the average person? Because you already were operating in the space, you already knew what a wedding booking looked like. You know, you kind of had a step ahead of everyone else there.

Ryan
– Yes, absolutely. I am lucky enough to have seen a lot of ceremonies. So I’ve seen a lot of, yeah, really good celebrants.

Josh
– Oh yeah, okay. No, but before we move on, I’m gonna tell you, so I hadn’t even considered that. You’ve seen a lot of ceremonies. That’s a game changer. I’m not even joking, me personally as a celebrant of, actually I just entered my 15th year as a celebrant a few days ago. I’ve probably seen, I’m trying to count, five or six weddings that I haven’t done in my life. Maybe, like max 10. I might’ve missed a few, but I haven’t seen many. You’ve seen more than 10.

Ryan
– I’ve seen hundreds.

Josh
– Yeah. Which is a really, it’s just a really interesting prospect. So like I mentor different wedding professionals and I love talking to wedding photographers ’cause I said there’s a really easy way for you to get this kind of business workflow in your head, try and figure out what’s good for you because you can book another photographer tomorrow. Like whether it’s, if you’re a single person, sure you can just get single person shots, but many people are in relationships, whether you’re married or family, go book a photographer tomorrow. You know, just book one. Like one you like, one you’ve never heard of, whatever. Go book them, pay them some money, do the thing. And hopefully that is good ’cause you get good photos. But obviously at the end, you can kind of reflect and say, oh, I booked Josh as my photographer and he did this and he did that, I did like this, I didn’t like that. And you can have a real opinion on running a photography business. But you, as a musician, you’ve seen, I know obviously you haven’t done the business of being a celebrant, but you’ve seen ceremony. So how did that, how did like, you don’t have to throw anyone under the bus, particularly if it’s me, but, (laughs) as like what kind of things fed into your education and then of course becoming a celebrant, like the things you’d seen, things you’d witnessed, like, yeah, give us the grocery list. Like what’s awesome, what’s not.

Ryan
– Yeah, definitely. I got to see a lot of different sound systems for one. And obviously hear a lot of different styles of delivery and kind of, yeah, I guess as I was moving through the course I started to pay more attention to what they were saying and just took a few notes here and there of things that I liked and ideas. And yeah, I just kind of, well, took more of a keen interest in the ceremonies and just kind of, yeah, tried to figure out what I personally liked and didn’t like in terms of my style. Obviously you’ve got to take into the consideration of the couple, of course, but yeah, certainly you want to show people what your style is and hopefully you align with the couple.

Josh
– Yeah, absolutely. So what’s, yeah, we’re kind of jumping all over the place here, but like, what’s your thing that you bring to market? How do you describe-

Ryan
– How do I see myself as a delivery?

Josh
– Yeah.

Ryan
– I guess, you know, I like to be fairly casual and relaxed but also keep it professional and lighthearted, upbeat and fun.

Josh
– This is how would you validate that as a product? Like how do you say, yeah, this is how I do that?

Ryan
– Good question. Well, I’ve only done one ceremony, so maybe there’s not a whole lot of track record there, but I mean, you know, I guess in my personality, in my dealings and meetings with clients, they will hopefully pick up on my personality and my vibe.

Josh
– Yeah, cool. I like that. Like, what’s your plan moving forward? You obviously, the music is what you’re known for and you’re popular for and you kind of, you’ve got a business there.

Ryan
– Yep.

Josh
– Do you, without, you have to reveal company secrets, but like, what’s the plan? Are you doing the packaging? Are you doing it to be two separate things? Like kind of like church and state that don’t meet?

Ryan
– Good question. At this stage, I don’t know the answer to that question. My first wedding where I was the celebrant was a family friend. And to be honest, that’s kind of the main reason why I moved forward with my registration at that time was so that I could marry them. And yeah, with the whole whiplash of coming out of COVID, you know, obviously there were a lot of weddings and things to catch up on. So the music side of my life has been very busy also with two young children as well. So there’s been, yeah, quite a bit happening. So it’s been, I guess, hard to fully flesh out that plan and how that looks. But as we’re coming into winter this year in the off season, yeah, I plan to kind of strategically sort of sit down and think about that a bit more. But I think ultimately, you know, a mix of the two would be great.

Josh
– Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, you’re in a really good place because you know the business and now you’ve just got an extra avenue, you know? Like it’s funny, I talked to a lot of celebrants that have kind of been doing it for a while and they talk about diversifying education, that kind of thing. And they talk about wanting to do maybe less weddings, which I understand. And if you’re a person that we’ve had that conversation about like no judgment. But I actually really love doing ceremonies. I love doing weddings. Like it’s fun. I’m good at it. It feels good. But what I’m interested in is pro diversifying so that, you know, if you were to liken it to say drinking, maybe don’t have a beer every night, but have a beer some nights, you know? And have water other nights or have wine or have soft drink, whatever. Like diversify what you’re doing. That’s on health advice. I’m just merely using it as an analogy if you’re not listening. But yeah, like, and so maybe just the simple, the fact that you can chew gum and you can walk and maybe you can do them together and maybe do them separately. And that’s cool.

Ryan
– Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I’m sure there’s a balance there. Yeah, I’ve just got to figure out what that looks like. Bit of trial and error.

Josh
– There’s a celebrant in Byron Bay who, I’m not too sure how much he does it today, but he’s a musician and he would kind of sing couples down the aisle, like from a celebrant position. And I always thought that was kind of cool. Logistically, it kind of pains me because I just think about the logistics of it.

Ryan
– I haven’t thought about that. Yes, it does sound challenging. Obviously wireless technology, but yeah, you have a lot to think about, particularly when you’re in the early days, I suppose.

Josh
– Like I’m guessing you probably don’t take many guitar texts to your weddings.

Ryan
– No. (both laughing)

Josh
– Can’t just throw your guitar to someone. (both laughing)

Ryan
– Well, my wife is my duo partner, so she might catch the guitar, but she’s not a great catch.

Josh
– Okay, final question before I go, just ’cause I don’t know, I just, it’s funny. Look, I obviously knew that you were a musician and I just hadn’t really considered what that means, but I want to talk PA system, ’cause you mentioned it before. And obviously as a musician, PA system is important to you. I’m gonna make a grand assumption that you have the same opinion than me that your PA system is important because it lets everyone experience what you’re selling. Like you guys could just stand there singing acoustically, I guess, singing acoustically, how you describe it, that a PA system? I don’t know.

Ryan
– Yeah.

Josh
– Yeah, you know, and just playing acoustic guitar and that would be great and lovely, but very few people would hear you. The PA system,

Ryan
– Yes.

Josh
– A public amplification system, yeah, it lets other people hear you. So first of all, what’s your ceremony kit as a muso? And how, if you didn’t have a PA system, but knowing everything you know, what would you go with as a celebrant today?

Ryan
– Celebrant. Yes, so we’ve been running the Bose S1 Pros and we’ve had, – Oh yeah.

Josh
– We’ve had two of those for a while as a duo, acoustic duo, and we recently purchased a JBL EON1 Mark II. – Oh, is there a Mark II?

Ryan
– Yeah, the column array system with a subwoofer, just for a little extra bass.

Josh
– How do you rate the Mark II? ‘Cause I rented a Mark I and it was good, but it wasn’t great.

Ryan
– Right, yes. I like it, it sounds good. I think that it reaches a point where it can start to distort, whereas the Bose does, I’ve never heard it distort.

Josh
– Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan
– That’s my take.

Josh
– I had a wedding in Mexico in Cabo and the DJ had, I just can’t, I felt really embarrassed. I never thought of this. I saw it, I thought that sounds so good. I feel embarrassed, I haven’t thought of this. He had two S1s, Bose S1s on stands, and then he had a sub. I’m like, why did I never think to have a sub? Like it’s just, and so he had the, I guess it must be the Bose L2 sub, whichever one has the separate sub these days. I think it’s, is it L2?

Ryan
– Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.

Josh
– Yeah, yeah.

Ryan
– Yeah, I like that.

Josh
– ‘Cause the L1 has a sub, but it’s part of the kind of array, kind of like the JBL, whereas he had just the standalone Bose sub. And it sounded phenomenal. I’m like, oh, I know that. Like if someone was to question me, like how do I make the sound better? I would know, I’d say, hey, get a sub. I just had never considered it for myself. And I felt really embarrassed. And it just, those Bose S1s, particularly two S1s and the sub, yeah, it was perfect. ‘Cause it also, this is a problem that happens a lot with weddings. I’m guessing Melbourne has the same problems as Southeast Queensland does, and Northern New South Wales with sound restrictions. You’re working at a wedding venue and it’s near homes. And you’ve got to respect those things. That is just what it is. If someone’s stupid enough to open a wedding venue next to a old person’s home, then that’s their cross the bay. But this setup, because the sub could deliver a lot of the feeling, it wasn’t loud, but it was present across the whole wedding. It just sounded so good. It was, yeah. So I walked away feeling really embarrassed. I’d never considered that for myself. So it’s also good to hear you’re on the Bose bandwagon. ‘Cause I keep on talking to people. Do you know Jackson at Factory Sound?

Ryan
– Yes, I do.

Josh
– Yeah, good guy. And I message him every now and then. I’m like, “Hey, is there something better yet?” He’s like, “No, there’s nothing better yet.” (laughing)

Ryan
– He would know.

Josh
– He would know. Yeah, and I guess I’m kind of waiting for like the Jesus PA system. ‘Cause the Bose, this one is great. You know, it would be awesome. Built-in wireless. But then I also, I don’t know, Bose isn’t known for its microphones. It’s not known for its wireless receivers. And I’m like, “Well, maybe I don’t want Bose “to make a microphone.” But yeah, this is, we can talk about audio forever. That’s audio guys, but.

Ryan
– Good, yeah. We do still use one of the Bose as well. And we predominantly use a foldback wedge, but if it’s a larger space, larger crew, we pump it out to the audience. Or if, you know, the entrant, male or female, or otherwise, is coming down from a different direction, sometimes it’s nice to just point that out there. And yeah, so it is still nice to have that in the kit.

Josh
– Do you do that with a wireless, like a Sennheiser wireless transmission? Or do you run a lead?

Ryan
– We just run a lead. Yeah, could do it wirelessly, but it’s not that necessary for what we’re trying to achieve, yeah.

Josh
– Yeah, I suppose as musos, you can, you’re positioning.

Ryan
– We’ve got a lot of cables.

Josh
– Yeah, we’ve got a lot of cables, but you’re positioning, like you don’t have to be up the front and center, you know?

Ryan
– That’s right, yeah.

Josh
– Celebrant kind of has to be up there. And so, and then by the laws of speaker placement, you want the speaker to be on the same plane as the Celebrant projecting back towards the audience. And so, so positioning, which is why I have a lot of wireless here, ’cause sometimes you’re just, positioning is just terrible. Just so the speaker’s gotta go over there and there’s no power, there’s no whatever.

Ryan
– Yes, of course.

Josh
– Yeah, all right.

Ryan
– Yeah.

Josh
– Cool, okay, I think we’ve just lost everyone with a good dose of audio trap. (laughing)

Ryan
– Oh yes, I think Jackson’s still with us.

Josh
– Yeah, it’s just you, me and Jackson now. (laughing) All righty, well, look, man, I wish you all the best on your journey and I hope you can find a place where you can be an awesome Celebrant, an awesome musician and make a crap load of money and have a lot of fun. Thanks for studying with the Celebrant Institute.

Ryan
– Thank you so much, pleasure.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music)