In this enlightening episode of the Celebrant Talk Show, host Josh Withers delves into the captivating world of new celebrants with guest Tori Brown from Grace and Soul Celebrancy. A recent graduate of the Certificate IV in Celebrancy at the Celebrant Institute, Tori shares her unique and inspiring journey towards becoming a celebrant.

Throughout the conversation, Tori opens up about her personal experiences that shaped her path, including a life-altering tragedy and her unexpected venture into public speaking. Her story is a powerful reminder of the profound impact of life events on our career choices and the importance of embracing life’s precious moments.

Josh and Tori explore the transformation from fear to confidence in public speaking, the significance of creating lasting memories for couples, and the challenges of establishing oneself in a competitive market. This episode not only offers an intimate look into the life of a new celebrant but also serves as a valuable resource for anyone considering a career in celebrancy.

Tune in to this episode of the Celebrant Talk Show to discover how Tori Brown transformed adversity into a passion for helping others celebrate their most cherished moments. Whether you’re a budding celebrant or simply interested in the intricacies of this unique profession, this episode is a must-listen!

 

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Transcript:

Josh
– Welcome to another episode of the Celebrant Talk Show. My name is Josh Withers, I’m your host today. And I’ve got a really exciting episode as part of our series talking to new Celebrants, Celebrants that have graduated from the Certificate IV in Celebrancy at the Celebrant Institute. And today’s is another rip-off. If you wanna listen to more episodes, celebrant.fm is the website to go to to find links to subscribe to your podcast app. And of course also to listen to episodes just on the web. And if you’re interested in the Cert IV, if you’re interested in studying to become a Celebrant, plus also if you actually are a Celebrant today and you’d like more help and guidance and mentoring in your business, then we have a membership program for you at celebrant.institute.

Tori
My name is Tori Brown. I own Grace and Soul Celebrancy, based on, of course, the study that I did with the Celebrant Institute. I am located at the moment in the northern Gold Coast, which is obviously a very beautiful part of Australia. When I became a Celebrant, I’m only a very new Celebrant. I’m a little baby Celebrant. I completed my study in May 2022. I finally got registered 11 weeks and five days from submission of my documents. And that was in August last year, in 2022. And so now I have been a Celebrant for around eight to nine months. So yeah, very much in the baby stages, very much still in the realm of figuring out business, understanding what this Celebrant life looks like, and yes, thinking about the future and what that might look like for me.

Josh
– When I went to school, there was absolutely zero little kids who wanted to be a Celebrant. I think the hot topics were pilot, a lot of firefighters. There were a couple of service people, kind of army whatnot. Couple of mechanics, we’re talking grade four, grade five here. Zero Celebrants. So it’s not really one of those careers that someone’s dreamt about being from, when I was a little kid. So why? Why did you become a Celebrant? What’s your Genesis story?

Tori
I suppose my genesis story is probably too pronged,

Josh
(upbeat music)

Tori
and this is going to get pretty deep pretty quickly, so I apologize. When I was 16, I was in a car accident, which also took the life of my younger sister, who was 13 at the time. That was obviously a very life-defining time in my life, but it also gave me an incredible key to understand that life is so incredibly precious and very short, and it can be taken away from you in the blink of an eye. I suppose from that respect, I then had, at a very young age, an insight into life that most people don’t get until they’re a little bit older. And so from then on, I made a pact to myself, if not with her, then for her. And so it’s pretty much been go from there. So I finished school, went to university, I bought a house, I’ve moved up here, and everything that I do, I’m just full speed ahead. I’m sure you can ask all of my friends, and they’ll say the same thing. The actual reason why I became a celebrant is that I was asked a significant amount of times to be MC for my friend’s weddings. And truth be told, I absolutely hate public speaking. It makes me paralyzingly nervous. I don’t even know if that’s a word, but it feels like it is. It makes me so incredibly nervous. I get dry in the mouth. I get this red rash all over my chest that then develops up my neck and over my face. And so to be honest, I absolutely– of course, I couldn’t say no. I felt like I couldn’t say no to my friends. And I do have an aura, I would say, when I walk into a room that everyone gravitates towards me. So I do have the personality for it, but my public speaking was just not up to scratch. And I felt that. I felt it in every part of my being. And I’m also what I would probably class as a perfectionist, so I wanted to make sure I did a good job. Ultimately, the only thing that really could make me do better is to put myself in the firing line and continue to practice public speaking. So I was looking at Toastmaster classes or other ways that I could do it. I started to put my hand up at my full-time job to do workshops and stuff to really put myself in the cauldron of fire. And then I was attending a friend’s wedding. And to be honest, I was sitting there, and the celebrant was– I would say the standard of the celebrant was very low, very, very low. And I thought to myself, surely I could do this. Surely this could be something that I could do. Number one, fix my fear of public speaking. Well, not fix it, but help me expose myself more to this. And number two, you obviously capture people in the most incredible time in their life. They’re so excited. They’re excited for the future. They’re in a big old love bubble. Their families are so excited. And for me, that’s really what the essence of all that is. And I suppose that links back to the original part of the story, which if I’m not sure if you’ve been in this situation, but when you lose someone that’s very close to you, you realize the– what is the word? I suppose you realize how important creating memories with those closest to you is. And for me to be a part of creating a seamless memory for someone on their special day, surrounded by their family and all their closest friends, that’s the greatest gift that I can ever give. And yeah, if that’s my piece of what I do for the world is to create a little bit of sunshine and allow people to have beautiful memories with their nearest and dearest, then that’s all I could ever hope for.

Josh
– Yeah, I do understand that.

Tori
[MUSIC PLAYING]

Josh
I haven’t lost someone to the same circumstance that you have and I’m deeply sorry for your loss, but it’s also definitely worth noting as you have that, that I feel like any situation in life, whether it’s just something really mediocre, like being handed a coffee or something much deeper and more important, that there’s always two ways you can kind of rebound from that. And I look at my own childhood and my brother and we’ve both kind of rebounded separately. Like when you throw a tennis ball to the ground, it’s not guaranteed to go left or right every time. And so that’s a phenomenal path that you’ve taken. And what a Genesis story, ’cause I feel like you talked to most celibates, I don’t know if you’ve talked to many, but most of us saw a wedding

Tori
[MUSIC PLAYING]

Josh
and thought one or two things, that was terrible, I can do way better. Or that was awesome, I can do that. Which are both valid and awesome ways of becoming a celibate, but for yours to be emboldened

Tori
[MUSIC PLAYING]

Josh
with something much more, I was gonna say important, but I don’t wanna take away from other people’s stories, but just something that’s more valuable is really beautiful. So congratulations, good on you. The question I’ve got now though, is a little bit more practical. There’s a difference between wanting something and getting it. All of us can drive past a Maserati and think that’d be cool. But to have your own is a completely different task. So what do you do? Do you ask Siri, how do I become a celibate? What are those steps you took to become, well obviously you studied with the Celibate Institute and then applied, but yeah, how did you figure out what to do? (upbeat music) – The rest is history, that’s beautiful. Yeah, and much love to all those other celibates. We call a word of mouth what it really was or into the house held a gun to the head. So come on, mate, someone asks you, no. That’s cool, I love it. The search for isn’t what a lot of people think it is ’cause I suppose when people think about becoming a celibate or an officiant for the Americans, they think about Joey from Friends or just, you know, the numerous people in pop culture that have just applied for a license online. What was your expectation of the search for versus actually doing it? (upbeat music) – Yeah, we do find that most people are kind of surprised, not just at the study, ’cause the study is the study, and you’ve been to university, so you’re aware of what study is. Me, not so much. Every time I approach something like that, like, “Oh, wow, you guys really need me “to know a lot of stuff here.” But the other surprise is just with what is contained within the role of being a celebrant. What was, was there something strange for you in regards to the role of a celebrant, like the common one is, “Oh my gosh, “you can marry your uncle.” Any other weird ones for you? (upbeat music) I like that. Becoming a celebrant, you said it took almost exactly three months, well, you missed out on a few days there, but the three month limit. How did it feel that second that you get that notice that you are a celebrant? (upbeat music) What’s your go to market plan? You obviously thought about it through doing a study and waiting for the application to be approved. But what’s your thing that you’re bringing to the market that makes you different and unique from other people? And then how does it kind of, how does that roll out over the next one, five, 10,000 years? (upbeat music) – Yeah, 100%. That’s obviously the biggest differentiator between Celebrants is we are selling ourselves. It’s funny, I talk to a lot of Celebrants in Europe through mentoring and coaching sessions over there and they get really big on all the trinkets and the stuff and I’m like, man, there’s enough people offering trinkets and stuff, but it’s like a one in three trillion chance you exist. That between your parents meeting and falling in love and then to all of a sudden to have a child and then once they decide to have a child, that all of that stuff works out. If you don’t know what that means, kids get on Google. And then for the fact that you were born and that you survived birth and you go through those first few years, like that’s a one in three trillion chance. Like you are a unique individual. You’re like no other. Even like if you or someone else sat at my feet and you kind of don’t sit like that’s a metaphor. No one actually has to sit at my feet. (laughs) But if you kind of attended all my weddings with me and we sat in the office for 40 hours a week and just kind of me sharing all of me, you still aren’t gonna be me. You might be heavily Josh influenced and some of my see you at a wedding, you go, hey, they’ve studied under Josh, but you’re still gonna be you. And so that’s not only your biggest strength, but it’s literally all you’re selling. And that’s kind of beautiful to be liberated from that point that you don’t have to have, I don’t know, the cool things that cool people have. Just you being you was great. And yes, there’s accessories, get a good PA system, maybe have a car that is a kind of you’re respectable to turn up in. (laughs) Yeah, maybe get a haircut. I don’t know, things like that. But at the core, you’re just you. And so I’m glad you recognize that. How are you going now? What’s your current status? Anything I can help or talk to? (upbeat music) – Where I’m at, so that’s, sorry. Yeah, so that’s, I’m still sort of understanding, still trying to figure out, as you would probably know coming from the Gold Coast, the Southeast Queensland market is desperately oversaturated and also that means that the pricing is pretty low in comparison to other parts of the country. But as I said, I’m not willing to, I’m not willing to bargain on my pricing and I know the value that I bring to my couples. So I’m standing pretty staunch with that. And yeah, the celebrant community here is incredible as well. I feel really lucky. – I will say that in an oversaturated market like that, there’s still opportunities, particularly when, and I can say this ’cause you’re not doing it, and so I apologize to anyone that hears this and is doing it ’cause you might be offended, but looking at a market like that and going, “Well, I’ll just go cheaper,” is the laziest method of trying to conquer that market. Only, there’s room for low-cost things. Jetstar is a thing. Solly’s or Crazy Clark’s or whatever $2 store, they are things. There’s a market for that. But if you notice those operations, particularly if you look at Jetstar, it’s a highly systemized, there is a big corporate structure behind being that cheap. There’s a whole system there. And so people take the lazy route and actually it’s more work. It’s harder, it’s worse for them, it’s yuck. So the easier route in the long run, which is the harder route in that first step, is to actually say, “I’m actually going to be a highly valued member “of this society that provides high value.” And high value doesn’t just mean dollars. It means all the other things it’s going to provide. But it also means dollars. Because everyone else is entering the market and going, “Well, I guess I’ll just go cheaper.” So everyone’s going cheaper and the market, not everyone in the market wants cheap. I like to fly Qantas. And that’s not some kind of status symbol. It’s just like, “I’m aware of the value I get “for the particular purchase, “and particularly for traveling with the family. “I’ve got status and you get bags and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” There’s a reason for not choosing the cheap option there. And so if you are providing value and if you can communicate that value well, then there’s room at the other end of the market, as opposed to everyone racing to the bottom of the market. Because in the end, if you win that race, guess what? You’re earning the least amount of money. Congratulations. Yeah, that’s… [silence] Yeah, no, it’s much better to be operating the higher value end of the market. It’s just better for your soul, better for your joy, better for everything, better for everyone, because your couples are getting better product because you don’t have to do 400 weddings a year because, yeah, the match is just better. And all it takes is that one simple decision to say, “Hey, I’m going to do better. I’m going to charge more,” etc. And everything just kind of ricochets from there. So good work. All right, well, look, I just want to congratulate you on becoming a Sullivan. It’s the best job in the world, and I’m so eager and excited to see people join the profession, and particularly the fact that you’ve entered it with a goal to be better and to be high value because I’m known, renowned for saying that there’s enough average Sullivans, or below average Sullivans as well. What we need are more excellent, awesome, passionate Sullivans. And so thank you for bringing that to the job.

Tori
Thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate it.

 

Welcome to another engaging episode of the Celebrant Talk Show, where we explore the diverse journeys of newly authorised celebrants in Australia. Today, I, Josh Withers, have the pleasure of hosting Ryan Enright from Paper Hearts, a Melbourne-based wedding musician who has recently embarked on a new journey as a celebrant.

In this episode, Ryan shares his unique transition from being a musician to becoming a celebrant – a decision influenced by the COVID-19 pandemic and the desire to up-skill during challenging times. We delve into the realities of the Cert IV in Celebrancy program, discussing its intensity and thoroughness, which drew Ryan to choose the Celebrant Institute for his studies.

Throughout our conversation, Ryan opens up about the challenges and triumphs of his journey – balancing his studies with significant life events like welcoming a child and buying a house. He reflects on his first wedding ceremony as a celebrant and offers insights into how his extensive experience as a musician attending numerous ceremonies has influenced his celebrant style.

We also venture into the technicalities and logistics of combining music and celebrancy in ceremonies, discussing sound systems and how Ryan plans to integrate his skills as a musician into his celebrant services. This episode is not just about Ryan’s story but also a deep dive into the nuances of celebrancy and the additional roles celebrants play in Australian weddings, compared to other countries.

Whether you’re an aspiring celebrant, a seasoned professional, or simply interested in the world of weddings, this episode offers valuable insights, laughs, and a real-life perspective on the evolving role of a celebrant in today’s world. Join us for this inspiring and informative session on the Celebrant Talk Show, your go-to podcast for all things celebrancy.

 

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Transcript:

Josh
– My name is Josh Withers. I’m the host for today’s episode of the Celebrant Talk Show. Welcome to it. We’re in the middle of a series where we’re talking to, interviewing new celebrants. Celebrants that have done the Certiform Celebrancy and they’ve become celebrants in Australia. They are authorised and ready to party and Ryan is one of those and I think his story will be a blessing to you. If you wanna hear other episodes of this podcast, celebrant.fm has all the links and also you can listen to other episodes there and find them on to your favourite podcast player. And if you wanna know more about the Cert4 and our membership program for celebrants, the website is celebrant.institute.

Ryan
(upbeat music) – My name’s Ryan. I’m in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia and I became a celebrant at the start of this year officially. And yes, I’ve done one wedding so far.

Josh
– In 2023.

Ryan
– Yes, it’s my time to shine.

Josh
(laughing) – It’s funny, just a really weird tangent to start on. Obviously you just start when you start. There’s all these great inspirational quotes about the best time to start was yesterday, the second best time to start was today. And that’s all very, very, very true. But I’ve got this weird thing where I just, I like nice dates. And so I became a celebrant in 2009 and I look back like, I wish it was 2010. 2010 is like, it’s just a nice, it’s a round year.

Ryan
– You can get the number.

Josh
– Yeah, like my wife was born in 1990. And so it’s really like, how old are you? Like, oh, well, she’s just the year at 10. (laughing) And so I feel about like odd numbers, like 23, 21, 25, let’s see, 25 is a good year to start. 23 and my year 2009. I don’t like the years, you know? So maybe you should have waited a year, but you know, maybe you should have. (laughing)

Ryan
– Too much maths involved.

Josh
– Too much maths. That’s my problem. Always mathematising things. Like talking about maths, what maths did you do in your brain to figure that you should be a celebrant? Everyone’s got a different story. What’s yours?

Ryan
– Excellent segue. Well, my story is COVID. So I’m primarily a musician and obviously during COVID times, there wasn’t a whole lot of work for us, especially in Melbourne. So I thought it would be a great idea to, you know, upskill during that time and study to become a celebrant, which was something that was kind of always, you know, on the radar in the back of my mind, just floating around as an idea. And I kind of just saw that time as, yeah, a good opportunity to do that.

Josh
– And how did that work out for you? Was the, did it bear fruit as you had hoped?

Ryan
– Well, yes and no. So it took me longer than I anticipated. And this is probably eating into some of your next few questions, but you know, it is, yeah, it’s quite an intense and long undertaking. It’s very thorough, which, you know, when I was assessing the various providers that offered the course is part of the reason I chose to study with you guys was because I wanted it to be thorough and I wanted to come out of it, you know, being a decent celebrant, hopefully, or at least, you know, having the tools I need to start that journey. But yeah, I also had another child during that time and, you know, bouncing in and out of lockdown. Yeah, bought a house, like did just lots of, you know, things that it just, when it rains, it pours, you know? So yeah, when I started the course, I had all this free time and then as the course progressed, I suddenly had, you know, very little free time and it took me a little bit longer than I had originally intended. But yeah, I persevered and got there in the end, which I’m, yeah, really happy about.

Josh
– Great. It is more than many people expect. I feel like the biggest disservice to the entire celebrancy/officiant/people that marry people business is Joey from “Friends” ’cause on TV in the ’90s, he just did a thing and became a minister and married people. And it’s just, it kind of is the case like that in America, but it very much isn’t that the case in Australia. It’s, you know, I’m lucky to speak to celebrants and officiants from around the world and they’re always amazed by what the Australian celebrant has on their plate. ‘Cause many of them find it overwhelming and have to, yeah, like their whole business is based on just doing the speaking bit, like obviously, and preparing for the speaking bit and the speaking bit. But the Australian celebrant has a lot more on their plate, you know?

Ryan
– Yes.

Josh
– As we can spend the next five hours talking about. The legal things can sink a whole bit. But yeah, so I’m glad you pushed through. That’s really awesome.

Ryan
– Yeah, yeah. And it was, you know, I guess one of the good things about the course is you can have a few attempts at the assignments as well. So I definitely used those. I just did the best I could with my first attempt, send it through, get some feedback and then go from there. That was kind of my approach to it.

Josh
– And honestly, that’s really smart. I’ve studied a little bit and I’m not that smart. I still kind of have that high school mentality of you gotta do it right. And then because, not that the high school mentality is you gotta do it right, but you gotta do it right. And then if you don’t do it right enough, then you fail and you suck and you should burn in hell. Whereas, you know, I guess the VET system or just the certificate four system is that you’re not yet competent, not yet competent, not yet competent, boom, you’re competent. Cool, yeah, we got there. Which is far more, I don’t know, just human and nice. (laughs)

Ryan
– Yeah, totally. Yeah, no, I appreciated that. (laughs)

Josh
– You obviously did the thing, you did the course and you took that through the application process. You get that letter saying that you’re legit, you’re ready to go. Did you feel more game ready than maybe the average person? Because you already were operating in the space, you already knew what a wedding booking looked like. You know, you kind of had a step ahead of everyone else there.

Ryan
– Yes, absolutely. I am lucky enough to have seen a lot of ceremonies. So I’ve seen a lot of, yeah, really good celebrants.

Josh
– Oh yeah, okay. No, but before we move on, I’m gonna tell you, so I hadn’t even considered that. You’ve seen a lot of ceremonies. That’s a game changer. I’m not even joking, me personally as a celebrant of, actually I just entered my 15th year as a celebrant a few days ago. I’ve probably seen, I’m trying to count, five or six weddings that I haven’t done in my life. Maybe, like max 10. I might’ve missed a few, but I haven’t seen many. You’ve seen more than 10.

Ryan
– I’ve seen hundreds.

Josh
– Yeah. Which is a really, it’s just a really interesting prospect. So like I mentor different wedding professionals and I love talking to wedding photographers ’cause I said there’s a really easy way for you to get this kind of business workflow in your head, try and figure out what’s good for you because you can book another photographer tomorrow. Like whether it’s, if you’re a single person, sure you can just get single person shots, but many people are in relationships, whether you’re married or family, go book a photographer tomorrow. You know, just book one. Like one you like, one you’ve never heard of, whatever. Go book them, pay them some money, do the thing. And hopefully that is good ’cause you get good photos. But obviously at the end, you can kind of reflect and say, oh, I booked Josh as my photographer and he did this and he did that, I did like this, I didn’t like that. And you can have a real opinion on running a photography business. But you, as a musician, you’ve seen, I know obviously you haven’t done the business of being a celebrant, but you’ve seen ceremony. So how did that, how did like, you don’t have to throw anyone under the bus, particularly if it’s me, but, (laughs) as like what kind of things fed into your education and then of course becoming a celebrant, like the things you’d seen, things you’d witnessed, like, yeah, give us the grocery list. Like what’s awesome, what’s not.

Ryan
– Yeah, definitely. I got to see a lot of different sound systems for one. And obviously hear a lot of different styles of delivery and kind of, yeah, I guess as I was moving through the course I started to pay more attention to what they were saying and just took a few notes here and there of things that I liked and ideas. And yeah, I just kind of, well, took more of a keen interest in the ceremonies and just kind of, yeah, tried to figure out what I personally liked and didn’t like in terms of my style. Obviously you’ve got to take into the consideration of the couple, of course, but yeah, certainly you want to show people what your style is and hopefully you align with the couple.

Josh
– Yeah, absolutely. So what’s, yeah, we’re kind of jumping all over the place here, but like, what’s your thing that you bring to market? How do you describe-

Ryan
– How do I see myself as a delivery?

Josh
– Yeah.

Ryan
– I guess, you know, I like to be fairly casual and relaxed but also keep it professional and lighthearted, upbeat and fun.

Josh
– This is how would you validate that as a product? Like how do you say, yeah, this is how I do that?

Ryan
– Good question. Well, I’ve only done one ceremony, so maybe there’s not a whole lot of track record there, but I mean, you know, I guess in my personality, in my dealings and meetings with clients, they will hopefully pick up on my personality and my vibe.

Josh
– Yeah, cool. I like that. Like, what’s your plan moving forward? You obviously, the music is what you’re known for and you’re popular for and you kind of, you’ve got a business there.

Ryan
– Yep.

Josh
– Do you, without, you have to reveal company secrets, but like, what’s the plan? Are you doing the packaging? Are you doing it to be two separate things? Like kind of like church and state that don’t meet?

Ryan
– Good question. At this stage, I don’t know the answer to that question. My first wedding where I was the celebrant was a family friend. And to be honest, that’s kind of the main reason why I moved forward with my registration at that time was so that I could marry them. And yeah, with the whole whiplash of coming out of COVID, you know, obviously there were a lot of weddings and things to catch up on. So the music side of my life has been very busy also with two young children as well. So there’s been, yeah, quite a bit happening. So it’s been, I guess, hard to fully flesh out that plan and how that looks. But as we’re coming into winter this year in the off season, yeah, I plan to kind of strategically sort of sit down and think about that a bit more. But I think ultimately, you know, a mix of the two would be great.

Josh
– Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, you’re in a really good place because you know the business and now you’ve just got an extra avenue, you know? Like it’s funny, I talked to a lot of celebrants that have kind of been doing it for a while and they talk about diversifying education, that kind of thing. And they talk about wanting to do maybe less weddings, which I understand. And if you’re a person that we’ve had that conversation about like no judgment. But I actually really love doing ceremonies. I love doing weddings. Like it’s fun. I’m good at it. It feels good. But what I’m interested in is pro diversifying so that, you know, if you were to liken it to say drinking, maybe don’t have a beer every night, but have a beer some nights, you know? And have water other nights or have wine or have soft drink, whatever. Like diversify what you’re doing. That’s on health advice. I’m just merely using it as an analogy if you’re not listening. But yeah, like, and so maybe just the simple, the fact that you can chew gum and you can walk and maybe you can do them together and maybe do them separately. And that’s cool.

Ryan
– Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I’m sure there’s a balance there. Yeah, I’ve just got to figure out what that looks like. Bit of trial and error.

Josh
– There’s a celebrant in Byron Bay who, I’m not too sure how much he does it today, but he’s a musician and he would kind of sing couples down the aisle, like from a celebrant position. And I always thought that was kind of cool. Logistically, it kind of pains me because I just think about the logistics of it.

Ryan
– I haven’t thought about that. Yes, it does sound challenging. Obviously wireless technology, but yeah, you have a lot to think about, particularly when you’re in the early days, I suppose.

Josh
– Like I’m guessing you probably don’t take many guitar texts to your weddings.

Ryan
– No. (both laughing)

Josh
– Can’t just throw your guitar to someone. (both laughing)

Ryan
– Well, my wife is my duo partner, so she might catch the guitar, but she’s not a great catch.

Josh
– Okay, final question before I go, just ’cause I don’t know, I just, it’s funny. Look, I obviously knew that you were a musician and I just hadn’t really considered what that means, but I want to talk PA system, ’cause you mentioned it before. And obviously as a musician, PA system is important to you. I’m gonna make a grand assumption that you have the same opinion than me that your PA system is important because it lets everyone experience what you’re selling. Like you guys could just stand there singing acoustically, I guess, singing acoustically, how you describe it, that a PA system? I don’t know.

Ryan
– Yeah.

Josh
– Yeah, you know, and just playing acoustic guitar and that would be great and lovely, but very few people would hear you. The PA system,

Ryan
– Yes.

Josh
– A public amplification system, yeah, it lets other people hear you. So first of all, what’s your ceremony kit as a muso? And how, if you didn’t have a PA system, but knowing everything you know, what would you go with as a celebrant today?

Ryan
– Celebrant. Yes, so we’ve been running the Bose S1 Pros and we’ve had, – Oh yeah.

Josh
– We’ve had two of those for a while as a duo, acoustic duo, and we recently purchased a JBL EON1 Mark II. – Oh, is there a Mark II?

Ryan
– Yeah, the column array system with a subwoofer, just for a little extra bass.

Josh
– How do you rate the Mark II? ‘Cause I rented a Mark I and it was good, but it wasn’t great.

Ryan
– Right, yes. I like it, it sounds good. I think that it reaches a point where it can start to distort, whereas the Bose does, I’ve never heard it distort.

Josh
– Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan
– That’s my take.

Josh
– I had a wedding in Mexico in Cabo and the DJ had, I just can’t, I felt really embarrassed. I never thought of this. I saw it, I thought that sounds so good. I feel embarrassed, I haven’t thought of this. He had two S1s, Bose S1s on stands, and then he had a sub. I’m like, why did I never think to have a sub? Like it’s just, and so he had the, I guess it must be the Bose L2 sub, whichever one has the separate sub these days. I think it’s, is it L2?

Ryan
– Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.

Josh
– Yeah, yeah.

Ryan
– Yeah, I like that.

Josh
– ‘Cause the L1 has a sub, but it’s part of the kind of array, kind of like the JBL, whereas he had just the standalone Bose sub. And it sounded phenomenal. I’m like, oh, I know that. Like if someone was to question me, like how do I make the sound better? I would know, I’d say, hey, get a sub. I just had never considered it for myself. And I felt really embarrassed. And it just, those Bose S1s, particularly two S1s and the sub, yeah, it was perfect. ‘Cause it also, this is a problem that happens a lot with weddings. I’m guessing Melbourne has the same problems as Southeast Queensland does, and Northern New South Wales with sound restrictions. You’re working at a wedding venue and it’s near homes. And you’ve got to respect those things. That is just what it is. If someone’s stupid enough to open a wedding venue next to a old person’s home, then that’s their cross the bay. But this setup, because the sub could deliver a lot of the feeling, it wasn’t loud, but it was present across the whole wedding. It just sounded so good. It was, yeah. So I walked away feeling really embarrassed. I’d never considered that for myself. So it’s also good to hear you’re on the Bose bandwagon. ‘Cause I keep on talking to people. Do you know Jackson at Factory Sound?

Ryan
– Yes, I do.

Josh
– Yeah, good guy. And I message him every now and then. I’m like, “Hey, is there something better yet?” He’s like, “No, there’s nothing better yet.” (laughing)

Ryan
– He would know.

Josh
– He would know. Yeah, and I guess I’m kind of waiting for like the Jesus PA system. ‘Cause the Bose, this one is great. You know, it would be awesome. Built-in wireless. But then I also, I don’t know, Bose isn’t known for its microphones. It’s not known for its wireless receivers. And I’m like, “Well, maybe I don’t want Bose “to make a microphone.” But yeah, this is, we can talk about audio forever. That’s audio guys, but.

Ryan
– Good, yeah. We do still use one of the Bose as well. And we predominantly use a foldback wedge, but if it’s a larger space, larger crew, we pump it out to the audience. Or if, you know, the entrant, male or female, or otherwise, is coming down from a different direction, sometimes it’s nice to just point that out there. And yeah, so it is still nice to have that in the kit.

Josh
– Do you do that with a wireless, like a Sennheiser wireless transmission? Or do you run a lead?

Ryan
– We just run a lead. Yeah, could do it wirelessly, but it’s not that necessary for what we’re trying to achieve, yeah.

Josh
– Yeah, I suppose as musos, you can, you’re positioning.

Ryan
– We’ve got a lot of cables.

Josh
– Yeah, we’ve got a lot of cables, but you’re positioning, like you don’t have to be up the front and center, you know?

Ryan
– That’s right, yeah.

Josh
– Celebrant kind of has to be up there. And so, and then by the laws of speaker placement, you want the speaker to be on the same plane as the Celebrant projecting back towards the audience. And so, so positioning, which is why I have a lot of wireless here, ’cause sometimes you’re just, positioning is just terrible. Just so the speaker’s gotta go over there and there’s no power, there’s no whatever.

Ryan
– Yes, of course.

Josh
– Yeah, all right.

Ryan
– Yeah.

Josh
– Cool, okay, I think we’ve just lost everyone with a good dose of audio trap. (laughing)

Ryan
– Oh yes, I think Jackson’s still with us.

Josh
– Yeah, it’s just you, me and Jackson now. (laughing) All righty, well, look, man, I wish you all the best on your journey and I hope you can find a place where you can be an awesome Celebrant, an awesome musician and make a crap load of money and have a lot of fun. Thanks for studying with the Celebrant Institute.

Ryan
– Thank you so much, pleasure.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music)

 

Welcome to another enriching episode of the Celebrant Talk Show, where we delve into the inspiring journeys of those who’ve embarked on the path of becoming a celebrant. Today’s episode features Rachel Ivy McDermott-Magrath, known professionally as “The Ivy Aisle,” who shares her captivating story from planning her own wedding to becoming a sought-after celebrant in Gippsland, Victoria.

Rachel’s conversation with us is not just a narrative of her transition into celebrancy but also a beacon of guidance for anyone considering this heartfelt profession. She reflects on the pivotal role her mentor, Sheridan Newham, played in her journey and how her experience with the Celebrant Institute’s comprehensive Certificate IV in Celebrancy program sculpted her skills and confidence.

Moreover, Rachel offers invaluable advice for prospective students, emphasising the importance of embracing feedback, staying resilient, and dedicating oneself to the study. Her insights into creating a personal brand, the significance of building genuine connections with clients, and the nuances of navigating the business aspects of celebrancy are particularly enlightening.

Whether you’re contemplating a career in celebrancy, currently studying, or already in the field, Rachel’s journey is a testament to the joy and fulfillment this profession can bring. Her aspirations to be a prominent name in Gippsland and her dreams of conducting ceremonies in iconic locations like New York and Paris are truly inspiring.

Join us in this episode to discover the passion, challenges, and triumphs of becoming a celebrant, and learn how you, too, can turn your aspirations into a rewarding career.

 

 

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Transcript:

Josh
– I sincerely hope that these podcasts with the Celebrant Institute are encouraging for you wherever you are on your Celebrant journey, whether you’re thinking about becoming a Celebrant, whether you’re in the middle of study right now, or you are out there on the front lines doing the hard work of marrying people. I hope these interviews we’re doing with the new Celebrants in this little series is encouraging and awesome. If you’re thinking about becoming a Celebrant and doing the Cert IV, just like Rachel did in this episode, then head to celebrant.institute to find out more information about the Cert IV in Celebrancy. And of course, if you wanna listen to more episodes of this podcast, celebrant.fm is the website. Finally, if you’re a Celebrant who’s out there operating, doing your best work, then first of all, good on you. Second of all, we provide a mentoring and membership aspect of the Celebrant Institute. You get access to all the website blog posts, and also you get 24/7 access, though it might be a little bit sketchy between midnight and 5 a.m., access to Sarah Aird and myself for marriage law help, business help, just wherever you’re feeling like we could speak into your life, you get access to us. And it’s only 10 bucks a month. So join now at celebrant.institute/join.

Rachel
(upbeat music) – My name is Rachel McDermott-MacGrath. I do go by the Ivy Isle, though, for my Celebrant business, because my middle name is Ivy, and it’s a pretty name, so why not? Plus the name Ivy Isle sounds really cool. And I’m from Drouin, which is in Gippsland in Victoria. So I travel all around Gippsland helping people get married, and I’ve been doing it for about a year and a half, yeah.

Josh
– And why on earth do you wanna become a Celebrant? There’s lots of great careers out there. If you talk to any good career counsellor, they’re talking about CEOs and accountants and doctors. What brought you to Celebrancy?

Rachel
– Yeah, wow, so many reasons. I think the first one that made me decide to go into Celebrancy was planning my own wedding. And I honestly had the best time. I never stressed about it at all. It was incredibly enjoyable. And then I realised, well, hey, I’ve already got a degree in creative writing. I want to write stories. I love to write stories, so I can write people’s love stories. And I’m really social. I love a good chat, sometimes too much. And I’m not shy in front of people. I guess that comes from being a teacher for a few years, a high school teacher. So if you can stand in front of a classroom with kids, a big group of wedding guests is not that scary. So yeah, that’s why I dived into it. And I have not looked back, not once.

Josh
– That’s so good. People that listen to these podcasts would probably have heard me say that I feel there’s always two ways that people get into Celebrancy, either because they had a bad experience at their own wedding or at a Celebrant, or they had a great experience. And so it’s awesome to hear you had a great experience. How was your Celebrant experience as a client? Like how did that shape your journey to becoming a Celebrant, a provider of Celebrant services?

Rachel
– Yeah, so funnily enough, my actual Celebrant became my mentor. So the one that was solemnizing my marriage, she became my mentor, and I’m still close to her these days. – Give her a shout out. – Yeah, her name is Sheridan Newham, and she is incredible. I idolise her in every way. And she’s the one that got me into the studying. She gave me a whole bunch of different courses to look into. She said, “Yes, you’ve got this. You are such a good person for this. Go for it.” And she’s just, she’s incredibly creative, and she’s got this incredibly fun energy to be around. So she’s inspiration, absolute inspiration. So that’s Sheridan Newham.

Josh
– That’s so good to hear.

Rachel
– She’s selling everyone. She’s incredible.

Josh
– So good. And how did you go about kind of deciding where to study, how to study? I’m guessing that you, like many people, wasn’t aware that so much went into becoming a Celebrant?

Rachel
– Yeah, no, I had no idea. And now that I’ve done all the work, and obviously now doing all the work as a Celebrant, I really can see the value in why Celebrants do have, I guess, the price on them that they do. A lot of people are a bit like, “But why?” And the amount of work that goes into it, before, during, even a bit after, it’s, you know, I can see why. And yeah, so for me, I was looking into all the different course options that I’d heard about, and I realized that the one I went with seemed to be that little bit of extra in terms of, I guess it was a little bit more thorough, and it also had a funeral aspect to it. And so one day I am looking at expanding into that. So obviously I started with the Celebrant Institute and under Sarah, and it was, yeah, I think I’ve been really, really well informed. I have gone in so confidently to every job, probably because we had so many pracs. And, you know, they really made sure you nailed every single assignment. And it actually turned out to be so worthwhile.

Josh
– That’s so good to hear. There’s such a high rate of people not finishing the Celebrant course across the industry. And so when Sarah and I set out to start, we were like, we thought we just, we can’t have that. It’s a waste of everyone’s time to start a course and to sell a course that you don’t finish. And so, and also, obviously once you finish it, that’s great, but then it would actually be useful to you when you’re actually out in the field. And so that’s really awesome to hear.

Rachel
– Yeah, absolutely. So many things I’ve found are incredibly useful. I’ve barely felt, I guess, surprised by any moment, which is, yeah, it does happen because we work with anyone and everyone, but I feel I’ve been very well prepared. But also during my course, I was always well supported, not just by my mentor, but by the assessors and Sarah herself. Yeah, I think a lot of the time, you don’t actually get to meet the people that create these courses. And she was doing regular Zoom catch-ups and obviously there’s these podcasts that you can listen to with all this information. I’ve got a journal of all my notes from listening to things and scribbling down notes and whatnot. So yeah, so much support. It was awesome.

Josh
– So talking about support, people are listening to this, they’re thinking about becoming a celebrant studying, particularly for the study aspect. What are your thoughts on people going into the study? How would you prepare them? How would you give them a tip, give them some advice to walk into the study and succeed?

Rachel
– Yeah, really good point. So I would say go into it confident, absolutely. And don’t be disheartened when you get feedback that says, you know, to put a little bit more into this or that, because it really will help you. So there was so many times that I got feedback that I felt like, oh, I really thought I nailed that, but I got this feedback and it was something as small as my tone of voice at that part of the prac sounded a little bit too sad for what, you know, celebrating a couple. And I was like, and looking back at it, that was very valuable. So it did feel maybe sometimes a bit disheartening, but then I actually look at it and go, no, I learned so much and it built my confidence so much more redoing things and making sure it was perfect. So now I go into working with actual clients and I feel like I’ve got this, I know I’ve got this. So I would just say, don’t let yourself be disheartened. It is a lot of work, definitely set aside a day, at least of the week where you really dedicate yourself to it. But, and you know, try and get yourself in the zone for studying and set yourself up with your snacks, if that’s what you need or have the right feng shui around you for study time, get into the zone and dive in, have confidence. I think, you know, it takes a really, really brave person to be a celebrant, but I think anyone that wants to do it can do it.

Josh
– It’s really interesting always talking about feedback. You know, like wise, smart people in their fancy books and their, you know, big name podcasts. There was talk about being really open to feedback. Like I think Steve Jobs or Jony Ive of Apple said something around the lines of, you know, feedback. It’s my favorite meal of the day or something like that. It was, they were talking about it being the meal they take every day. And I’ve always been open to feedback, but it’s funny, sometimes when you receive feedback, like you can talk the talk and say, “Hey, please send feedback.” And I’ve received feedback sometimes and it really turns out I haven’t been that open to it. And so when I have finally gotten over myself in whatever situation it might’ve been, and I’ve actually kind of like, you know, almost put the lion to sleep and had a glass of water and a deep breath, the feedback often is really helpful. And I think back to, I was on a TV show a couple of years ago and the director, you wouldn’t believe what the director was doing. They were directing me and it was terrible. (laughing)

Rachel
– My God. How dare they?

Josh
– Yeah, I know. How dare you come to work and do your job? That is terrible. (laughing) And then she actually pulled me aside and she said, “Hey, we all want you to win. “That’s why we’re giving you feedback.” And I’m like, “Oh, so you don’t, “are you not a high school bully?” Sorry, I completely misidentified you as a high school bully as opposed to a professional TV director who actually wants me to be successful on this show. And yeah, it was a real groundbreaking moment for me. Not like I’m any better today. I still suck at receiving feedback. But yeah, like you said, if you can really open your eyes to that, particularly when you’re studying, like I can definitely say of Sarah and everyone else at the Sullivan Institute, we all want you to win. Like none of us take the, I’ve just forgotten the word, not the booking, the enrollment. None of us take the enrollment like, “Ah-ha, oh, another sucker. “Let’s bash ’em into smithereens “so they don’t think about studying anything else ever again. “What a loser.” Yeah, that would be a terrible thing to think of people that are studying. And also, obviously, the celebrancy is, celebrancy studies is one of those things where it’s quite very closely linked to the profession. And we also don’t want that for people joining the profession, but it would be an encouraging good thing. So I’m glad you received that well.

Rachel
– There’s definitely times I was, had to take the walk away and be like, “What sort of feedback was that?” And it was never bad, never. It was always so helpful. But I tried really hard and then I was like, “No, I thought I nailed it.” But I’d have a quick breather, come back and go, “Oh yeah, no, they’re right.” And it made me a lot better.

Josh
– So I love talking about taking these skills to market. I’m making the assumption that once you graduated, the application process took what it took and you got your email saying you’re all G. And from there, let’s talk about branding, marketing, but also the thing I’m most passionate about, product. The actual thing you’re actually selling. When someone pays you a dollar, what do they get? And what was your plan to take yourself to market like that?

Rachel
– Yeah, I actually think there was an assessment that really helped me with that as well, which I don’t think when I’ve spoken about courses, I’m not sure every course actually helps with that, but I found there was one towards the end that actually helped me really start getting into that mind frame. And that’s where I thought to reach out to my mentor and I asked her to introduce me to other celebrants and she got me into some social media groups with other celebrants, which then became, I guess my sounding board for ideas. And I even posted different logos and stuff in there to get feedback. But my mentor came up with the idea of the Ivy Aisle because I often, 50% of the time go by the name Ivy. And she’s like, “I had this crazy dream one night when we had both just done a wedding nearby, we went out and hung out afterwards and you were going by the name the Ivy Aisle.” And I was like, “That is it, that is my name.” And just from there, and then I had this assignment, just from there, I just started, I guess, this creative explosion in my mind. And I just went straight into looking into different types of websites that I could create stuff on. I found one that I felt really comfortable with, which was Squarespace. I know other celebrants use it, so I could pick their brains being like, “How did you get this to work?” and whatnot. But it’s really simple for me. And I then went into, well, the Ivy Isle, and I love plants and green, so everything’s green. I really love that fresh, natural vibe to it because it’s the vibe I’m trying to bring to weddings is that real natural down to earth sort of vibe. So I guess it all started working together from that moment. And I mean, ultimately celebrants, it sounds crazy, but we are sort of selling ourselves, are we not? You know, you want people-

Josh
– 100% you’re selling yourself, yeah. – Yeah, yeah, you’re 100%. So selling yourself and you want people to just feel a connection with you. So I say to my couples, I do a sort of meet and greet, no obligations type of situation, because I think vibe, and I’m sure most, if not all celebrants could agree on this, the vibe you have with your celebrant is a make or break for your wedding because you don’t want to feel like there’s a stranger standing there talking about you and this person you love as if they’ve known you for years. You want someone to be standing there as if they actually do know you. So I really try and make that connection first before I expect them to make any commitment so that they go into it feeling like, hey, she’s a friend, she gets me. Because they’re entrusting me to a lot. They’re telling me a lot about their love life and their intimate details. And that for some people is confronting. So they need to feel comfortable with who they’re working with. And that’s my aim. So I sell myself as crazy as it sounds as a third wheel to their relationship, as their friend. – Yeah, now I don’t know if you’ve read any more stuff of the Rebel’s Guide blog, but I’ve talked to her about with, you know, if you get a really good deal from your wedding furniture provider and like, and it’s a good furniture, and it’s a good deal, and you meet the person, like, ah, they’re a douchebag. Like, well, you know, you can kind of, if your wedding furniture guy is a douchebag, you can just live with that. And, you know, and there’s various suppliers that, you know, the person who owns the property, like, ah, they’re a bit of a douchebag, but we just don’t really gel, you know, politically or whatever. And like, yeah, well, you can kind of get by. But there’s people like, particularly your photographer and your celebrant, and like, they are in your face. Like, you probably spend more time with your photographer at a wedding than you do your partner, because they spend time with you getting ready. And then your celebrant, to the same degree, but much more intensified, for like, you know, half hour, whatever it might be, they’re kind of, they are the voice of this bit, the bit you invite everyone to. You know, the time that’s on the invite is for the ceremony, and there’s this really valuable, important thing happening. And yeah, you get a vibe with this person, which is why I don’t really, I really struggle with the idea of the whole wedding is awards. Because if they say, you know, Josh, this is number one, I’m like, what does that mean? What is it like, number one for like, Jack and Sally? But like, what about Todd and Samantha? What do they, it doesn’t really mean anything. So yeah, I’m glad you’ve identified that early.

Rachel
– Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the really important things for people to recognize once they do graduate, you know, it is hard to build up. You’re building up pretty much from ground zero. And you know, you’re gonna have people that will say that you’re not their vibe, and that’s okay. You just have to accept that, yeah, you’re not for everyone, and that’s normal, we’re human. But the people that you do vibe with, they will book you because they will have that connection. So I’ve definitely had my fair share of people say, no, decide to go elsewhere. And I will always say, I hope you have your dream day. Because honestly, everyone still deserves their dream day. I would love to be part of it. (laughs) But if it’s not right, it’s not right, and that’s okay. You just, you find, you start attracting particular couples anyway. So it works out okay, yeah.

Josh
– Yeah, yeah. And look, I’ll turn this around, just make this a little bit of a mentoring session. Hopefully it will help some people.

Rachel
– Yeah.

Josh
– You’ve 100% gonna be okay with people saying no to people, and people saying no to you. But equally, and probably like 1% more, like 51%, 49%, you’ve gotta be okay with saying yes to people, and charging a good fee, and being paid that fee, and like, this is normal, like people want me. (laughs) You know, like I’ve, I was just coaching a friend earlier today through an issue with their business. And I’m like, it’s okay for people to pay the fee, and you do the thing, and for that to be good. (laughs) Which it sounds like a silly thing to kind of coach someone, but like, you know, we get all up in our heads sometimes. We get all, no, unless of course you’re mentally perfect, Rachel, then this is maybe for someone else’s sake. But, (laughs) it’s okay to be chosen by couples. And you know, like, I’m so blessed, I’m so lucky I get inquiries from around the world. And people always inquire about that, like, how do you get that? I’m like, I don’t know, man, I’m just really honest about who I am. And I put that out, and people say, yeah, that’s me. And then next minute I’m doing their wedding in Paris. Like, I’m not advertising destination weddings, I’m just advertising Josh, and just letting them know who I am, and what’s important to me.

Rachel
– Yeah. – And that vibes with people.

Josh
– Yeah. – So it’s good.

Rachel
– And I think that definitely does vibe with a lot of couples out there. They just, they like the transparency. But I, you know, I couldn’t agree more with what you were saying about being okay with charging people, because I guess a lot of people become celebrants, because they are very friendly, outgoing people. And then you build this connection, and I’m not gonna lie, I get a lot of guilt sometimes. I feel like, oh, but they were so cool. I feel really bad being like, hey, here’s my fee, or I need to charge you this much extra for travel. The travel, extra travel fee seems to be the one that I sort of struggle a little bit to, I guess, get on top of. So that, I could not agree more with that advice. I am starting to get a bit more of a backbone around it, but that has been one of the harder aspects for sure. For sure.

Josh
– Well, we’ll extend the mentoring session for another 30 seconds, and I’ll give you this advice.

Rachel
– Yeah.

Josh
– ‘Cause I had travel fees. I think travel fees are an impediment to a commercial relationship. Like, I absolutely hate it. I hate buying things in America ever, because it doesn’t matter what you’re buying. You’re like, oh, it’s $100. Cool, I can do $100 for that. And then you get a bit like, oh, it’s 115, ’cause of this tax. And then go through, you’re in a restaurant, like, yeah, it’s an extra fee. Actually, I went somewhere the other day. I was in New York, and the, you know, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but they have the default tip options. So you can manually say, you know, whatever percent. Or they’ve got, they have defaults. And their defaults started at 25%. I’m like, dude, 25%. You’re already a pricey restaurant. (laughs) And so I don’t, I just like knowing what something is.

Rachel
– Yeah.

Josh
– And, yeah, like, I’d rather you say it’s $150 than say it’s 100 plus sales tax and plus tip.

Rachel
– Yeah.

Josh
– And so, coming back to the travel fee, my advice for anyone with travel fees is not to say fee plus travel fee, but just say this is my fee. And so I remember the first time I ever did a Sydney wedding being based on the Gold Coast. It was because instead of saying fee plus travel, I just said, here’s my Sydney fee. And the Sydney fee was magically, you wouldn’t believe it, the same number as fee plus travel fee, but because it was just communicated as fee, it was great. And people, I’m a, people find it much easier to swallow.

Rachel
– Yeah, yeah, no, that makes complete sense. ‘Cause I often have couples ask me, are there any extra hidden costs? And I’m straight out like, no, no, where you are, it is what it is and don’t stress. Everything that is written there is a part of the package, is a part of the package, there’s nothing more to it. But yeah, the travel one I do feel is tricky. So it must be something I might start looking to re-evaluating. I really appreciate the advice, so thank you.

Josh
– Well, look, it’s been really interesting to hear about your journey into becoming a celebrant, why you became a celebrant. And onwards and upwards, like leave us with this, what’s your big audacious goal? Like where do you hope to be in five, 10 years?

Rachel
– I hope to be absolutely smashing it full time, marrying lovers in New York and Paris. That’d be amazing. I really hope that I am just your go-to name down in Gippsland, to be honest. I would absolutely love to be that celebrant people like, have you seen Rachel from the Ivy Isle? Oh my gosh, she is it. That is my absolute goal.

Josh
– Love it. Well, I wish you all the best in that. And I think you’ve got a real hot chance of achieving that goal, mainly because you know what it is. So 10 points.

Rachel
– I’m already kicking goals. I’ve been setting goals each year, I’ve been kicking them so far, so smashing it, I’m loving it.

 

In this vibrant episode of the Celebrant Talk Show, host Josh Withers welcomes the enthusiastic Melissa Edwards, a newly minted celebrant who completed her Certificate IV in Celebrancy with the Celebrant Institute.

As part of our series on fresh celebrants, Melissa shares her inspiring journey – from witnessing her sister’s wedding to becoming a celebrant herself.

With a passion for creating inclusive ceremonies and a unique, relaxed style, Melissa is redefining the celebrant scene.

Join us for an enlightening conversation full of practical insights, personal stories, and the highs and lows of starting out in this beautiful profession. Whether you’re a budding celebrant or a seasoned professional, Melissa’s story is sure to motivate and entertain. Don’t miss out on this episode full of heart, humour, and helpful tips!

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Transcript:

In this short run series on the celebrant talk show we’re talking to brand new celebrants. celebrants that have recently got their cert foreign celebrancy and they’re fresh out of the gate making ceremonies for awesome couples that are getting married. Today we’re talking to Melissa I hope it’s an encouraging chat for you and if you’d like to know more about studying the cert foreign celebrancy how to become a celebrant and if you already are a celebrant then there’s so many resources for you along with a membership and encouragement program go to the website celebrant.institute and if you want to find more episodes of this podcast celebrant.fm My name is Melissa, I’m Melissa Edwards and I became a celebrant in I think it was February this year. What a journey. It was a long journey. Doing the study for the the actual act of becoming a celebrant is a little bit more than some people realize so I want to talk about that in a second but first of all what’s your why? What’s your what’s your reason for wanting to to get yourself an A number and become a celebrant? Yeah okay so I went to my sister’s wedding and I’d also helped her through the whole process. She’s not a very sloppy person and I am and I’d helped her write the vowels, research readings all that sort of thing and she sort of said oh you’ve got a bit of a knack for this and I thought yeah it’s really fun and I enjoyed kind of helping her with I don’t know just a lot of the wording and then at the ceremony I was watching the celebrant and had a chat with her after about what it kind of entailed and little seeds sort of planting and I thought oh I think I could like this and yes I ended up going for it and I really enjoy it. I feel like there’s two kinds of celebrants that an aspirational celebrant says there’s a celebrant that was amazing and you think I was so inspirational I want to be like that person or was there the celebrant who left you wanting more? I hope and trust that the celebrant you saw was a great one? She was great she was yeah quite gracious warm she was just a really good speaker and it flowed really nicely it was a really sweet lovely warm ceremony and I quite like that yeah and she was a little older she was maybe a bit more tradition the warmth still came through and I sort of started thinking well I’d be younger and a bit different in my style and how would do it so I thought it started getting the wheels turning of how I would do it if it was me and my style and you know how I would get it going so it was nice to see the difference but also see some of the traits that are like. Okay well so tell us so what was your you that you wanted to hope to take to market the thing that you thought you could do exceptionally well or different that you thought would be interesting to couples? Some of my friends that had gotten married often the celebrants were a bit older or quite very formal in their approach even though the content was really great and I suppose I wanted to have great content but maybe be a bit more relaxed and current in how what might be appealing to maybe people more in the age frame of 30s 40s 50s that might appeal yeah and also I’m in quite an inclusive celebrant I’m gay and I wanted to appeal to people’s non-binary gay whatever heteros as well just a very kind of open everybody’s accepted sort of feeling with my ceremonies and I have been doing that yeah so that’s been really great I live in Ballarat near Dalesford it’s quite a queer community and so I’ve been connecting with with the community and having some interest so it’s been really good. I don’t know if I’ve shared this story on the podcast before but one of my one of my earliest conversations with a couple as clients potential clients that were two girls get married and this would be let’s look at 2013 so a good was it was the 2017 that the marriage came in? Yeah around then it was before the pandemic. It was like A, P, B, P before the pandemic happened. Before my friend had become celebrant in the queer community did it during COVID because it had just been legalized so yeah you’re right I think. Yeah so it must mean we are 2013 that I met with this couple and and like I said it was my first time as a as a celebrant maybe a couple potentially to be there celebrant and I sat down and I bring a lot of energy to some meetings just to kind of as an active leadership like you know I know that you don’t know what’s going on that kind of thing and so so like just bring some some kind of joy and leadership and so I came out of the gates and said I’m so excited to be a celebrant because unlike so many of my clients so many of my clients so many of my couples you two can can do what you like you’re not bound by by years hundreds and thousands of years of tradition you’re not bound by religious tradition you’re not even bound by law you can just do what you like. And and I said what do you mean we’re not bound by law? I said oh well because you know and they said what do you mean? I said well because it’s your your marriage wouldn’t be and I’m just kind of stumbling at my words dying because I’m realizing that they didn’t know that they couldn’t get married. Oh no you’re mortifying. They’re crying, I’m feeling stupid. Oh my gosh. Wow wow this is a point that they didn’t know well okay. Oh this is disappointing for that moment but I I still maintain that uh that and it’s funny out of the um out of the the couples I’ve met that have been allowed to marriage since 2017 a lot of them um kind of like uh the teenager who finally leaves home and buys a big tin of Milo because you know he can finally book and finally eat all the Milo I want take that mum and dad kind of the same way with their wedding they’re like aha I’m finally gonna get that traditional wedding that you guys have been holding back from me and so no like just make our numbers say half would be like that and half would be like oh cool like we are we are we’re fresh blood we’re like we’re like a new kind of a new cutting from the tree we’ll do something innovative and unique and special so it’s a cool time to be working. Yeah definitely I think so too yeah. So how did you find the study? Okay so oh it was epic really epic but wonderful uh okay so um you know some parts of it were dry for me I enjoy the practical side more than the theory side but you know it’s still amazing and you need to learn it uh so the assessments in the beginning it was really good learning I really enjoyed it um it was a lot to get through but valuable and I think one of the best parts was sort of learning later when you are a celebrant that you’ve got so much material to read from you don’t have to memorize everything it’s important to learn it as you’re learning but later on you’ve got the guidelines you’ve got the marriage act you’ve got so much to look back on and always get the information from so it’s going to be okay you know you feel at the time like oh my gosh you’re so much info how am I going to remember all this you don’t have to remember it all but you need to know the essentials um absolutely it’s definitely going yeah and it was wonderful to really learn it because I think there’s been a fair few celebrants that maybe didn’t get as detailed training and felt very unequipped and I feel like I got so much detail so much great information so much support better than many others and I feel very grateful for that uh and it continues after I mean you can stay with you guys with the celebrant institute um you know posts and everything there’s so much info still and support there I think so if you did if you do it through the pdf you’ve obviously got access to those pdfs and those documents forever because yeah I’m assuming they’re in your drop box categorized they’re very handy yeah but but then if you’ve done the um uh it must be the start of 2022 30 years or more together uh but yeah we have to add to a very online course and the same thing you can still access that forever so if you if you do the course today and yeah you become authorized tomorrow um uh you still go back and access that forever which is really really helpful because that certainly wasn’t the case when I became a celebrant yeah there’s so many templates that I use all the time you know because there’s so much you need I mean you’re doing welcome letters you’re doing all these sort of follow-up things there’s just you never know what’s going to be thrown at you and I feel like I can always find something in there that will help me uh yeah it’s been really really great actually um and just the basics of even invoices and receipts and all all that it’s helpful to sort of see examples and you change it and do your own thing with it but you feel like you’ve got everything you need to start and then you go out from there with your own you know branding or whatever on it but um yeah it’s been awesome I love that I’m really happy that that’s there yeah were you the kind of person who thought that the course couldn’t have been as big um as as it was made out to be no I thought it was going to be pretty big um because I did ring around quite a few celebrants beforehand ones that I thought looked amazing and asked them what they recommended for the training and they said you guys which is why I did it oh that’s so good and um and I read reviews and I sort of did a bit of research and I saw that it was much more detailed than the other ones and that’s what I wanted so although it is a lot um it’s worth it I think so yeah I kind of knew it was going to be a lot but um maybe not to the extent but that’s okay it’s it’s a big undertaking so you’ve got to be serious about it but it’s really valuable how long did it take the um the Attorney General’s office to to uh process your paperwork the full three months to me the full three months the stories I’m hearing these days it takes the full three months give or take a day yeah I would say so yeah it was a wait um that’s okay because I was still preparing a lot of things and um yeah I think I needed a little breather maybe after everything so it was it was kind of okay for me I didn’t mind yeah and you know I also have a work life where I work four days a week and I do my celebrancy on one day a week and then you know when I do other bits and pieces as well so I fit it in with my life it’s um with my other job so I kind of go at my own pace with everything um yeah so that’s okay for me you’ve already talked a little bit about um how you hoped to bring yourself to market uh but I you know you’ve been a celebrant for a few few hours now how have you found how have you found that process uh coming to market uh you know web social directories etc that kind of thing it’s been a real learning process uh learning about seo was a big thing that I’ve been researching and learning and at first I couldn’t even find in a google search once I first started and had my website up it wasn’t popping up it took a fair bit of work to get that to happen and I pretty much did ads on you know you do google business um instagram facebook uh starting to really pump that and that really started to get things happening and actually get some movement and people to actually find my website and then going through and making the searches of what people you know what you’ve chosen for the search is more specific because first it was melbourne celebrant I’m not in melbourne and I don’t want to waste my money on what I’ve been for the ads being melbourne based uh so just refining things so you’re getting better value for your money are the ads really reflect you and it just started to happen more and more and also on facebook I really have used that a lot facebook wedding groups and for me the lgbtq balorak group because people post up there and say does anyone know an inclusive celebrant and I’m on there straight away um chatting to them and sending my link so yeah that’s kind of how I’ve been growing it and I’ve got many more ideas it’s you know it’s early in the baby stage is still and I’m always delighted when someone contacts me it’s very exciting you go oh it’s working um yeah but there’s more and more and I’m going actually tomorrow night I’m going to a wedding industry ball in balorak and I’ve been going to expos I wasn’t uh registered in time to have a stall but I still went to a wedding expo near me and had a chat to celebrants and they were wonderful in balorak area and they will give me the contact and said let’s hang out let’s connect um let’s talk about ideas and we’re happy to give you guidance as well it’s been really welcoming so I think also at the ball it’s going to be nice to connect with other vendors and suppliers just to so everyone kind of see each other’s faces and then when you do cross paths you’ve got some familiarity so um networking in that way is helpful too hopefully for referrals down the future yeah so and I just got magnets for my car with my business logo got the business cards made and um yeah I’ve got other plans to join some expos as well and things like that so things in the works and getting photos getting photos done so you can put things on instagram and facebook you got to do all that stuff yeah and learning how to actually post things and do it well or getting better as you go well I hope that um that the celebrants are cheap not just the training through the RCA but the membership would be a blessing to you with that stuff as well because that’s uh obviously that’s the kind of stuff we’re passionate about and we’re posting that all the time and um of course you can always jump on the ask page as well and if we can um help us find more particular uh with with that said I um I wanted to wrap up the podcast uh with with with uh one final question uh or like what have you found the toughest across the entire journey from wanting to come a celebrant to today you know it was um like choosing uh where to study the study the application come into market what’s been the biggest struggle for you when I got my first wedding and then they cancelled that was I’m sorry that was a real hard one so I haven’t done a wedding yet but I have some booked now which is great for you know next year or further in the year um and I was so excited when I had my first wedding booked and then they and they paid their booking fee and you know we started doing the norm and all that but then they cancelled um so that was a real disappointment and then it was like dead silence for about a month and um that was a real challenge but it got me motivated and I went all right well I’m not doing something right here I’m not being seen enough okay I didn’t work with them but I’m gonna keep going and and then I did get another booking um once I really pumped up the advertising so yeah I had a bit of a downtime then where I felt really disappointed because it was like a high and then a low but I went you know you feel your little sads and you eat lots of chocolate that day and have a bit of a Netflix day and then you go all right well come on let’s just keep going how am I gonna how am I gonna up this so that I actually get out there and it gets bumping so yeah yeah I’d say because I was just so over overjoyed to have a booking like it was mind-blowing um yeah it was really disappointing but yeah it was a real growth experience after that I think yeah so it’s kind of helpful in its own way and you do get ghosted and you get so close sometimes and it doesn’t happen and then it and then when it does and it’s all solid and it’s happening it’s it’s really wonderful so you know you have you have your ups and downs with um starting out I think yeah absolutely no it’s all part of the journey I’m writing a book at the moment called the rebels gods getting married and I uh I mentioned in there when when we’re talking about contacting vendors just hit reply and let people know because I know you might be contacting 30 vendors but for the vendor you might be the one person that that in quiet today and we’re human and we love to hear from you we love to hear feedback or whatever it might be because uh don’t leave us hanging let’s say it sucks when it goes you hey it’s been a pleasure to uh talk to you today I wish you all the best on your celibate journey and I look forward to looking forward to seeing you grow and grow and grow and thanks for choosing the celibate institute to study with oh thank you you guys were wonderful and that’s why I did the interview because you know gratitude and really appreciate the lovely work you’ve done so pleasure pleasure chatting you.

Embark on a celebrant’s journey with Megan Studman and Josh Withers in the Celebrant Talk Show! From certification to conducting her first wedding, Megan’s story is a fascinating dive into the world of celebrancy. Learn about the challenges and joys of becoming a celebrant, how to stay motivated through the course, and what it takes to create ceremonies that truly resonate. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone interested in the art of celebrancy, seasoned professionals, and newcomers alike. Tune in and be inspired!

In this engaging episode of the Celebrant Talk Show, host Josh Withers takes us through an insightful conversation with Megan, a new celebrant who has recently completed her certification with the Celebrant Institute. Megan talks about her journey, from her initial decision to become a celebrant during Melbourne’s lockdowns to the completion of her Certificate 4 in Celebrancy. She shares the challenges and triumphs she faced, including the nerve-wracking wait for her registration from the Attorney General’s Department and the excitement of conducting her first wedding.

Listeners will find valuable advice on navigating the overwhelm of starting the course, the importance of having a study buddy, and the practical steps to entering the celebrant market. Megan candidly discusses her aspirations, her approach to creating personal and meaningful ceremonies, and the importance of finding her unique voice in the industry. The episode provides a real-world perspective on the celebrant’s journey, offering encouragement and practical tips for both new and experienced celebrants.

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Transcript

[MUSIC PLAYING] You’re listening to the Celebrant Talk Show with me, Josh Withers. I’m your host today. And we’re on a series talking to new, fresh, fresh out of the gate celebrants that have done a Certificate Four in Celebrancy. And if you’re new to the game, as in, you’ll think about becoming a celebrant, that’s the qualification you need to get to become a celebrant in the Commonwealth of Australia. And so please enjoy their journey. Figure out what the course is like and how to become a celebrant. And if you already are a celebrant, I hope that these conversations are encouraging for you. You can learn a little bit more from someone who’s walked through the gates a lot longer after you have. To find more episodes, go to celebrant.fm. Of course, this podcast is produced by the Celebrant Institute. We provide help mentoring support for celebrants through our membership program. Plus, we also provide the certificate for in celebrancy through the Celebrant Institute RTO. And all of that can be found on the website, celebrant.institute. [MUSIC PLAYING] My name is Megan. I completed my certificate for with the Celebrant Institute at the end of last year, so the end of 2022. And about a month ago, I finally received my registration from Attorney General’s Department. So I’m fresh. I’m brand newbie out in the real world. Fresh off the block. Yeah, exactly. They sent me out into the wide world, allowing me to sell nice people’s marriages against all odds. So yes, I’m a newbie. I remember getting that letter. Actually, question, because it’s funny. I’ve talked to a few people about this, and I’ve assumed– is it an email now, or do you still get the letter? It’s an email. Yeah, I thought so. And funnily enough, I was hoping to do– so I had said I would do my first wedding for a friend I went to school with, with a huge disclaimer that at the time I agreed to do it, I was not actually qualified. But Attorney General’s had given me enough confidence to believe that I would get it in time. And I followed up, and followed up, and followed up. And then it was literally the afternoon of the exact day, almost three months later, that I received that email from them. I don’t know. So they told me not to follow up before three months, and it was three months to the day that came through on an email. It’s interesting you say that, because quite a few people have reported it as being like, give or take a day or three. It’s been dead on three months. I feel that’s just their thing today. I feel like it just must be a peak bureaucracy in action. And I say that with affection, being a camberen and a former public servant. I know how these things work, but they’ve got their dates that they’re going to process things and review them and send it out to people, and there’s no rushing that. So that was– it was a painstaking wait, because I then received that email from Attorney General’s office 10 days before my friend’s wedding that I was going to be celebrating at. So it was a very happy day, and I was very glad to be able to do my first wedding a couple of weeks ago, which was great. I’m really happy for you. Congratulations. And what I was going to say is I remember getting the letter, which was, back in my day, you got letters in the mail. But I felt the same way I felt when they handed me my newborn daughter, and they’re like, yeah, just– you’re a parent now. Just go on. Go on, get out there. It was a little bit like that being a celebrator. You’re a celebrator now. Just go on. You can do it, mate. Go on, get out there. Well, I can’t quite relate to being sent home the newborn, but it’s definitely up there the time I went to pick up a new puppy, and they just let me drive off with her. And I thought– and I remember just looking at it, we were just sitting in the car looking at each other, like, what do we do now? I guess we just go home and do this thing together. It was a bit like that, actually, and especially showing up to my first wedding. But I did feel– I felt like the trading kicked in as corny as that sounds. I do feel really prepared. Yeah. That’s the goal, right? Exactly. Exactly. Who would have thought that almost two years, which is what I turned my daddy into, who would have thought I learned some things along the way? Yes. That turned out to be useful. Well, let’s start at the start then. Why become a celebrator? There’s a million good careers listed on Chat GPT. You chose celebrant as something you wanted two words to get involved in. Why? What was your genesis story? I guess there’s not one particular reason or moment that I decided to do it. It’s something that I’ve had in the back of my head for a long time. And I’d spoken to friends when they were getting married and gotten excited. I’ve always loved being part of friends’ weddings and being bridesmaid and being an emcee before. And always thought it would be very cool to be a celebrant, but not something I ever got around to looking into. And so being here in Melbourne in our extensive lockdowns was what actually prompted me to finally take the plunge. I had a lot of time up my sleeve. And I wanted to feel like I was using the time to do something productive. So I did a bit of quick bit of online research. I wouldn’t say it was extensive, but I came across Celebrant Institute. And I saw that they were delivering fully online and self-paced, which meant I could do it around my full-time job. I could do it in my own time. And I thought, it can’t be that hard. I’ll just give it a go. I feel like– Famous last words. I know. Can’t be that hard. I know. And if I send this recording to my mum one day, she’ll be laughing because she’s helped me a lot. And it’s been throughout this thing kept keep me on track many times when I wanted to give up throughout the study process. But I think more than anything, it was just a fun and creative outlet alongside my 9 to 5 job. I think my personality and temperament is well suited to it. I love hearing about people’s relationships and why they work and what makes them unique. I like drinking their champagne at weddings as well. So there was a little bit of that too. But it just felt like something I could basically get started is something I could just use my– and I would have felt like I’ve accomplished something, something that I’ve always had in the back of my mind as well. I didn’t quite envisage it would take me two years to do it. But that was what I was thinking at the time of taking the plunge and starting my certificate form. And you’ve already mentioned that maybe your expectations of the course were different to the reality. What’s your advice for someone getting into it today? I would say if you feel overwhelmed initially, don’t be scared off by that. I feel like that’s part of the process. The overwhelm is inevitable. So push through that. And secondly, buddy up with somebody else who’s studying. They don’t have to be in the same city. But just to feel like there’s somebody you can ask or even just study together over Zoom or meet up with, have coffee, ask you little questions with. Just someone to feel like you’re on the journey with them. Because I think studying can be quite an isolating process without that, particularly doing an online course. Or I would say those two things. Don’t be put off by the initial overwhelm and buddy up with somebody who’s on a similar journey. Those are the two things that really helped me. Having done the course and received your registration, what’s your plan? What’s your go-to-market plan? Is it going to be something you keep in your back pocket? Are you planning to take over the world? What’s the plan for you as a celebrant? Initially, maybe somewhere in between. It’s something I haven’t really proactively started looking into building a website or marketing or anything at all like that. I’ve got my first wedding under my belt. And I’m doing another one for some friends later this year. And I think once I get those two under my belt, I might feel a bit more confident in being a little bit more proactive. I always said I wanted to do it just for family and friends to friends and people I have a connection to. But I do foresee myself enjoying it so much that I’d like to find a way to do more of it. Because I think it’s one of those professions, the more you do, the better you get at it as well. So in the meantime, I still have my 9 to 5 job. And that won’t change. But if there’s a way I can add more of this lovely creative outlet and being a part of people’s special days in the future, I’m definitely going to pursue that. But I just want to get a first couple under my belt, get a bit of confidence from that, and then see how I feel. Because you’ve got to test the waters a little bit. I always like to ask people what their differentiator is, what their point of difference is. And I’ll ask you– I put a pin in there for a second. But there’s also the fact that I remember my first– I would say I didn’t really know who I was as a celebrant until late 2013. And I was authorized in May 2009. So that’s four years in the wilderness there, trying to figure out what am I good at, what are my strengths, what are my weaknesses, what do people care about. For example, a lot of celebrants get really up in the wedding industry game and with other celebrants and having celebrities. And please do all that. But there’s not a couple on the planet that cares so many celebrant friends you have. It’s their wedding. And so there’s that time that is required to figure out how do you matter to people. So as I said, I was going to ask, do you feel you’ve got a differentiator or something unique? But then also reflecting on that, how do you see yourself and your celebrants practice– celebrancy practice are mattering to people? That is an excellent question and maybe something I should have put more thought in before attempting to answer. Honestly, I don’t know because I know there’s so many incredible celebrants out there who’ve nailed their niche. And I followed them on Instagram for a long time. And I think I really aspire to be that honed and they so clearly know their audience. I haven’t really thought about who my audience is beyond people I know, to be honest, friends or friends or friends or family. I think going forward and what really sparks joy– sorry to use that phrase for me– is feeling like I can deliver a ceremony that genuinely represents who the couple are. And I genuinely have a connection with them. They’re people that I could have a drink with or have a great chat with, whether we’re talking about planning their wedding or not. So finding a genuine connection with a couple well before the wedding day is something I would like to become very good at, I think. I’m sure celebrants probably say that. But in terms of my differentiator, you might need to give me some time for that one, Josh. Well, you can have all of them in the world. Luckily, myself and no one else was pushing you into the marketplace. But yeah, it’s good to start thinking about that. And as you’ve already identified, wedding after wedding after wedding, that’ll become much more clear. I like you’re going to have times when you– I don’t wish this upon you. It’s just a simple fact of being human on the planet. But you’re probably going to screw something up, so– Oh, I’m sure I already have plenty of time. Yeah. But those things are such a beautiful opportunity. When you get that feedback from the couple, like, hey, you’re screwed up. And at that time, it’s such a good opportunity to be humble and kind, but also go like, oh, wow, this is a really good learning moment for me to do X, Y, and Z better, or don’t do A, B, and C, or whatever it might be. Yeah, I think it is. I’m so– yeah, absolutely. And I think I’m really open to– I think the nature of the course as well made me open to feedback and seeing that as invaluable little nuggets that I should be getting– taking from each couple and each experience to learn and grow, hopefully. That’s the plan anyway. I know you’re fresh into celebrancy. Your email is still drying. I think– does that analogy work? Yes. I think it does. I wanted to seek your final feedback as part of this interview to just– there’s so many different places that offer the cert for celebrancy. And there’s different ways of doing it. As someone who’s graduated, done it, what’s your feedback on the Celebrant Institute RTO and studying online? I would say I feel– I found it a challenging experience, probably only because I was in lockdown and I was doing it online, self-paced and in isolation. And I think I’m somebody who works generally, tends to get energy from working more in a team and with people. But I couldn’t change the nature of not being able to go and meet up with people at the time. And I’m grateful that I still could pursue the certificate for in that time. I think coming out– so I had plenty of moments where I felt like it was far more work than I bargained for. And I know that’s not necessarily the Celebrant Institute. That’s the requirements of the Attorney General’s office. And I wanted to– and I probably would have thrown in the towel plenty of times if it wasn’t for my friends and family who I’d already roped in had been on the journey with me because I talked about it all the time, encouraging me to continue. But now I’m on the other side of it, and hindsight’s a great thing. I do feel– I came out feeling really, really prepared. Like I found that even when couples were– not couples, there’s only been one– asking me questions, like I was– and I was sort of sitting across them and expected to answer with some authority. Even though I’d never, ever done it in real life before, I felt like I had enough experience from studying, that I could come up with an answer. And I didn’t feel– and I’d done it so many times through all those practical assessments that I surprised myself by how well prepared I felt when I stood up there in front of my first– for my first wedding. So despite it, it was challenging. And I found sometimes some of the feedback I got challenged me and it was pedantic. But you almost can see now on the other side of it why it was like that, and I’m grateful. I’m really grateful for the support of the trainers and, in particular, Tanya, who always took the time to explain things to me as we went along and cheered me on. It was a really, really good learning experience. Now I’m on the other side of it. I’m just not someone who’s ever really– I made uni much harder for myself than I needed to. But I’m really glad I’m on the other side of it. And I definitely feel– and I definitely felt prepared when I stood up there in front of my first wedding. So I guess I can’t ask for anything more than that. Well, I’m so glad that you got through the process. I know one of our stresses with the Cert 4, just with any kind of adult education, Cert 3, 4– it’s not Cert 5, but onwards, is a lot of people– a lot of people start and don’t finish. And so we’ve gone to great lengths to make sure people finish. And sometimes that means saying no early on. Well, it’s not necessarily no, but just really say, hey, this isn’t easy. And so if you’re not committed, then don’t start. We would rather you not do it and not pay, then start, pay, and not finish it. So congratulations on finishing. Congratulations on becoming a celebrant. And best of luck on your journey. Thank you so much, Josh. I really, really appreciate it. Lovely to talk to you. We’d see you talking to your voice. You’re so familiar to me. And now I’m actually speaking to you. It’s weird. But anyway, thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate it. And lovely to talk to you.

In this episode of the Celebrant Talk Show, Josh Withers interviews Amy McNeilly, a recent graduate from the Celebrant Institute. Amy, who works as a clinical dietician, pursued celebrancy to engage more with people, inspired by a celebrant she admired.

The training was challenging, especially during the pandemic, taking two years to complete. She emphasises the role’s complexity and the importance of personalising ceremonies.

Her initial celebrant work began with friends’ weddings, and she plans to develop a more structured marketing strategy.

Or listen on the website

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Transcription: G’day, welcome to another episode of the Celebrant Talk Show. My name is Josh Withers, I’m your host for today’s episode. And this podcast is produced by the Celebrant Institute, our website, celebrant.institute. We’re a membership program for celebrants to help you guys be the best you can be. Plus, we’ve got the Celebrant Institute RTO, where we train up new and aspiring celebrants with the qualification required to become a celebrant in Australia. And today you’re hearing another one of the series of our recent graduates talking to them about what it was like to do the course and of course become a celebrant. So please be inspired by today’s episode and hopefully you can take something away to make your celebrancy practice the best in the world. To find other episodes of the podcast, go to celebrant.fm and of course, for the full website membership, about the information about the search for a celebrancy, you can go to celebrant.institute.

My name’s Amy. I am from Melbourne, Victoria, and I first became a celebrant. I got qualified in July of 2021. – Why on earth did you become a celebrant? There’s a million jobs out there. You could have been a surgeon, a vet. Why did you become a celebrant? – Absolutely. Well, that’s a great question, Josh. Absolutely. I actually already have another career. So by weekday, generally I’m a clinical dietician, one of the major hospitals in Melbourne, but I’ve done that career for over a decade. And as happens, when you’re sent to become more senior in a career, you get to do less of the fun stuff and more of the boring stuff. So when I was a baby dietician, I used to do awesome things like run groups and take people to supermarkets and really get to know my clients or consumers or however we wanna put the people who use our services. But the more senior I became, the less I did that. And so I’m someone also who really loves people. So in terms of, I really like to know their story to the point that I have to stop myself from really delving into a really deep conversation with people on the first meeting or two. And so I was thinking about what puts my skills of loving people, getting to know their stories, but also having a bit more fun in a job. And it had been something I’d thrown around years prior to that, as lots of people do around the time they get married, but thought, no, no, no, no, celebrancy, not the one. But at that point in time, it really felt like the right thing to do. So I signed up in, I think it was the March of 2019 and started there, Cert 4 in May 2019. And so that actually took me quite a while to finish, as I’m sure you can imagine, it’s supposed to go for about a year, but my year melded into the first year of the pandemic. And so lots of things got pushed back. So it took about two years to complete, but it definitely feels the brief of why I became a celebrant. – Things got pushed back during the pandemic.

I desperately wanna know more about this. Please. (laughs) – Yeah, absolutely. So the Cert 4 that I did, as I’m sure with any organization, it involves some theory, some face-to-face learning, some online self-paced learning, but also the major assessments being the performances. So you’re given a scenario of a certain couple and something happening, and you need to write their script and go through the process you would go through as a celebrant, but you have to film these. And so obviously we weren’t allowed at a point in time to actually see anyone apart from the people in our house. And as we know, there needs to be at least five people present to make a marriage legal. So the celebrant, the couple, and their two witnesses. So a lot of my assessments, I wasn’t able to do at certain points in the pandemic, because I wasn’t actually allowed to have people in my physical space. When we were allowed to have at least five people together, I did lots and lots of these during my catch-ups with my friends. I’m sure that’s not what they wanted to do in their first moments of freedom. And then the real sticking point for me was we had to do a ceremony in front of about 20 to 30 people. And so that one took quite a long time to build up to being allowed to have enough people available to finish that assessment. So that’s what pushed me back, Josh.

It’s been an interesting couple of years, hasn’t it? – Absolutely. – ‘Cause I do wanna talk about starting as a celebrant at that time, but I just wanna backtrack a little bit to that point where you decided you wanted to become a celebrant. And two quick questions around that. It’s not the first career choice for everyone. In Australia, there’s about 10,000 celebrants. It’s not a popular career. It’s not something that kind of everyone, like, yeah, little kids aren’t growing up wanting to become a celebrant. So had you seen someone, had someone inspired you, had you gone to a wedding and thought they were great, or gone to a wedding and thought they were terrible? And then secondly, like, you make the decision to become a celebrant. Like, what did you do? You call 1-800-SELIPANT? Like, what did you kind of, what action did you take to figure out how to do that? – I was inspired by someone, actually, someone who was fantastic. So I think it would have been almost 15 years ago, I went to a wedding where Julia, I believe her surname is Dohavon, Julia’s celebrancy services was the celebrant. – Yeah, that’s Julia, she’s amazing. – She is incredible. So went to a friend’s wedding. It was one of the first weddings I’d been to by a civil celebrant. Previous to that, I’d been to religious weddings. And I just thought she brought the vibe. And I was absolutely inspired by her, so much so that about seven years later, we decided to have her for our own wedding, my husband and I. And she still stuck out to me as someone who was really, I guess, bringing a really good energy and kind of was one of the reasons that I felt like I could bring that positive energy of getting to know people and doing the fun part of the things that I was missing in my clinical career. – Can I just say, big call to think that you could be like happier and more joyful than Julia, but you know, whatever. – It is a big call, absolutely. I feel like I haven’t reached that, but I am quite a bubbly kind of girl, but she’s definitely next level. You know, something to aspire to for my whole career, I’m sure. So I, as everyone does, did a little bit of Googling to see what you had to do. Found out there was a certificate for in celebrancy and then did some inquiring around about which course I wanted to do, which organisation. I guess for me, I was acknowledging that I wanted to do most of it self-paced. I’m really someone who’s very self-motivated and organised. I didn’t want to have to go to an organisation every Saturday and take up all of that time. I wanted to be able to kind of do it in my own time in the evenings or bits here and there, even in the mornings. But I wanted to have a bit of an intensive to dump me in to really get the flow of it at first. So I came across, I think at the time in 2019, it would have been through talented training. So, which I believe now is Celebrant Institute RTO. – That’s it, yeah. – Perfect. So yeah, I did it through Sarah Ed being the trainer and I loved Sarah and her vibe. And so we did a five day intensive with her and then did self-paced for the rest of the time. And so I guess, yeah, apart from Googling and having a bit of a squeeze, I did a bit of comparison about what was gonna work for me, the timeframes and then just saw my life away and got on with it. – The course itself is much harder than most people think. But how did the course match or exceed or not match or not meet your expectations as far as becoming a celebrant? Because, and just the angle you’re not going on is that a lot of people think you’ve just got to go online and buy the license like Joey on Friends. And it’s obviously a million times different than Joey from Friends’ experience. So like, how did the course and the application process differ in your expectations? – Yeah, that’s a great question. Absolutely, so much more involved than anticipated by lots of people and people are still shocked whenever I tell them. Or even, I think the same, I’m sure everyone who is a celebrant gets this, but like, oh, surely you don’t really have to do any work to be able to deliver the ceremony, right? Whether that’s a very different vibe to if we’re gonna provide quality ceremonies, there’s a lot of work that goes into it. So I guess when I started, I believe Sarah said it should take us about 600 hours to complete the cert four. And so that gave me a really good indication of the amount of time I should be dedicating a side. I definitely don’t think it took me anywhere near that long, but it did take me a good chunk of time. Essentially I completed it over the two years. I would say I was pretty committed to it in terms of doing a good chunk every week. So a couple of hours each week over that two year period. So really, it took a lot of commitment. And I wouldn’t say, I would say to people, it’s very worth it, but you have to be very, very committed to actually getting to the end goal and wanting to do it. I think if you’re just doing it, a lot of people ask me, oh, you know, my friend, my friend’s getting married and they want me to be the celebrant. And that’s in my opinion, not the right reason to do it if you don’t wanna be doing other weddings. We can all, as celebrants, we can help other people do weddings and do the legal part. But for me, it’s the real commitment to getting to the end goal. I found some of the assessments, to be honest, quite cumbersome. That felt quite repetitive at times, but that really drilled into me the importance of getting the details right. So while at the time it was frustrating, now that I am a celebrant, all of those things come back to me pretty quickly, or even the things that I had to resubmit. If I had missed a detail, I’d never miss them now. And I haven’t had to resubmit any of my marriage paperwork since I’ve done any weddings. So I think it set me up very well, despite being a tiny bit frustrating at times. – Yeah, it’s a little bit like learning algebra or whatnot in high school. At the time, you’re like, this is so stupid. (laughs) But obviously a lot of the learning does play out in your training as a celebrant, sorry, in your career as a celebrant. On that, I find a lot of people surprised at just marriage law, marriage act stuff. Like, oh, I didn’t know the cousins could get married, or whatever it might be, in becoming a celebrant. What was your big thing? Your weird thing? Oh my gosh, you kind of came home and told your significant other that whatever, this is so weird. – I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that I felt was so weird, but I think really realizing- – You were cool with the cousins bit? – I mean, look, you already said it, so I didn’t wanna repeat it. But I think the thing that really surprised me is just how little of a ceremony is actually the legal wording. You know, that you could literally get the ceremony done in less than five minutes, and that people still go to the registry office rather than getting someone else to do it somewhere that they really wanna get married rather than the registry office, ’cause you could do a registry style wedding quite quickly. – Yeah, absolutely. It’s a, I always find that represented when I have meetings with couples and they say, “Oh, do we have to do the, where one of us submits to the other?” I’m like, “Oh, no, dude, like, none of that’s in the law. That’s just, that’s another thing.” It’s funny, it’s all those hangovers that people have. – Yeah, yeah, and I think, yeah, just all the things we expect to go along with weddings that we absolutely don’t have to do at all. I think that was the most surprising thing for me. – Okay, look, that’s such a good journey, but all of that is a little bit like when you’re flying to a destination and we do a whole flight report on which aircraft you went on and how the flight events were, which is all really cool. But the whole reason you did this was to become a celebrant. Tell me about your kind of, you go-to-market strategy. Like, you get that letter from the AGD, you’re all good, you’re rigid edge, let’s send you off to market. What does that look like for you? Because every celebrant’s kind of go-to-market strategy is different and particularly yours. I think you mentioned you were still employed like the celebrant-y, at least currently isn’t your full-time gig. Do you have a plan for it to be full-time gig? Like, what does that look like for you? – Yeah, absolutely. So I had an original plan of go-to-market, but as discussed, we were still in the middle of the pandemic, even when I got my license. So that was in, I finished the course in April, 2021. I got my license in July, 2021. And because again, I work in a hospital, my full-time role was actually much bigger than normal, working a lot more hours. And those hours I’d planned on dedicating to celebrancy, things went to the, by the wayside. And so what ended up happening is I just ended up marrying friends. And then I’d planned in 2022 to get back on board and build out my website and my socials and kind of pitch to a bit of an audience and hone that a little bit. And then I fell pregnant. So again, I did weddings for friends and friends are friends. And I really, most of mine have just been these organic from a friend or a friend of a friend referrals. So my daughter was born in August last year. And then I did my first wedding postpartum at six weeks postpartum. And so that was a bit crazy. I don’t know really how I managed to keep my eyes open at that point, but essentially she’s starting childcare in two weeks time. And so I’m gonna sit down and finally actually make my website and a bit more of a structured strategy. – And so, I know you’re still working on it, but what’s that kind of seed in your mind? Like what kind of ceremony do you wanna provide? What kind of product do you wanna provide? What kind of couple do you hope to attract? Yeah, like give us a little bit of insight into that as we wrap up the podcast today. – Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s something I need to do a fair bit more work on Josh, but I think really people who were just looking for someone’s son, bubbly, and wanting to have a bit of a good time, but also go a little bit in depth into their story. I’ve certainly had people who inquire with me who just don’t really want a bubbly person and I’m not the girl for you. I am who I am, but also I really like going in deep and getting to the crux of what makes this couple different from everyone else. And so I need to define how to find those people a little bit more, but that’s what I’m looking for. – Well, I wish you all the best about it. Certainly a profitable and exciting place to kind of start walking towards because as much as just being a celebrant is really good and it is, it’s a great gig. And if all you did in your celebratory career was just, I don’t know, whatever you could define as bad weddings, it’s still a really good day. It’s like that sticky Santa Becca cars. A bad day at golf is still better than a good day at work. It’s a little bit like whatever you could decide to find as a bad wedding, it’s still really, really bloody good. But then when you start figuring out who vibes with you, who you are, ’cause that’s obviously part of the process is you seem a little bit more self-aware than the average bear, but many of us are still figuring out who we are and what kind of service we do provide. And so when you start kind of locking in all those puzzle pieces, that’s where the real joy is because you start doing work for people who really value you and they like what you do and bing, bing, bing, you have enough of the big win. – Absolutely, yeah, that’s the sweet spot. – I mean, well, hey, thank you for spending some time with me on the podcast today. Thanks for sharing your story. Congratulations on not just doing your search for, but also becoming a point of the celebrant. I’m really passionate about encouraging new celebrants because, well, you know what? Everyone was a new celebrant one time and I hope you haven’t experienced any of this, but when I became a celebrant, there was a lot of pushback and negativity from the celebrant community. And that’s almost like there was enough, if off we’re home, if off we’re full kind of vibe. And like we’re never full because there’s people who are meant for you to marry because you provide something unique and special and there’s something you can do that I, not only can’t do, I won’t do, but it’s just not supposed to be for me. And so, congratulations, I wish you the best and thanks for sharing your story today. – Thanks so much, Josh.

In this exciting episode of the Celebrant Institute’s Celebrant Talk Show podcast, join your host, Josh Withers, as he continues his series of insightful interviews with recent graduates and new celebrants. This episode features a conversation with Lachlan “Lachie” Grisold, the dynamic Melbourne-based marriage celebrant behind “Weddings by the Beard.” Lachie shares his fresh perspectives on the celebrancy world, discussing his journey from completing his Certificate IV in Celebrancy to creating unique and memorable wedding experiences. Tune in for an episode full of inspiration, practical advice, and Lachie’s unique approach to celebrating love.

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Transcript: Welcome to another episode of the Celebrant Talk Show. My name is Josh Withers, I’m your host today. And we’ve got a special episode. Earlier this year, I sat down with a few new Certificate 4 in Celebrancy graduates that have become celebrants recently, and I want to share their story with you. If you’re thinking about becoming a celebrant, if you’re a new celebrant, hopefully their path will encourage you and show you a path that might make a way forward for you. And if you’ve been a celebrant for some time, hopefully just mixing with new blood might be an encouragement for you as you continue on your journey of being an awesome celebrant. I hope you enjoy this episode.

My name is Lachie. I have been a celebrant for a year under the brand name, Weddings by the Beard. It grew itself out and it’s here to stay, apparently. I do most of my work out of Melbourne, but have been tempted to go interstate a few times, and we’ll see how much more often that happens. It’s pretty always exciting to do. – Yeah, it’s a pretty good gig the old doing weddings around the world, hey. – Oh, around the world is the next step. That is, that would be tremendous, of course. – Well, they keep on trying, you get me. I’m in Hawaii at the moment and off to Paris on Friday. So, you know, I hope it’s well- – So it can be done. It can be done. – Tremendous. – Tell us, mate, why on earth are you a celebrant? What happened? What happened to you, childhood, that you thought you should go and speak in front of crowds for a living? – What went wrong? (both laughing) Well, that’s it. I’m one of those real weirdos, has a screw loose, and really enjoys public speaking, would you believe? – I know it, that’s me. (both laughing) – Yeah, we’re in good company. So, a life on stage, musical theater, drama degree, couple of years, traveling around Europe being a tour guide. And then I got home and it was just when the virus that shall not be named landed. And I went, what can I do that I will find fulfilling and will put my hard earned skills to work? And it just happened, I went to a friend’s wedding, Damon Hughes, huge shout out, absolute legend. And Damon was up there having a great time. And I went, ah, that and ran at it. – It’s always interesting. Most celebrants have got one of two stories. One is that they saw a wedding and it was really bad. And they thought, oh, I could do that better. Or the other one is you see someone like Damon, who’s a legend, and you see that and think, oh, that guy does a really good job. I reckon I could do a really good job too, which is cool. – And it’s probably only binary. There would be no in between. – No one sees just like an average Sarah celebrant and goes, oh yeah, that could be a job. Something like that, maybe. Yeah, that’s a job that people do. – And you did the Cert 4. I’m gonna stage a guess that a personality like yours is a little bit like mine, where academic study like a Cert 4 seems like a really cool idea until you get the first module open. – Yeah, yeah. And you’re sitting there going, ah, yes. They say it takes a year for a reason, right? – Yeah, yeah, not for me. Well, not for a smart guy like me. It’s probably. – Oh, no, yeah, no, easily. I know that all the time in the world to manage that as well. – Yeah, yeah. So how did you find the Cert 4? – Look, it was monstrous. I was given all the warnings in the world. And as you said, we just blithely ignore it, saying this will take time, make sure you’ve got energy. And I went, oh yeah, yeah, I can do that in spare time and what have you. COVID made it pretty hard. There’s a number of assignments in there that, you know, you got to sit down with five or 30 friends. And when it’s hard enough to get two people in a room at that period of time, it really dragged out. I think the course itself, when I took it really seriously, prepared me really well. There were large aspects of it that weren’t directly related to weddings that I found maybe difficult to keep up the motivation with. Anything wedding related, really motivated, saw the immediate payback with it. But when it seems like practice filling in for someone’s 80th birthday or whatever, I thought, am I enjoying this? Or is this just a real box tick? So that was a difficult part of it. – Yeah, I understand that. You know, what’s funny is as the certificate for is prepared, there’s just things you get a tick off from like a, I’m not to get too deep down in the nerdery, but there’s government frameworks and for someone to get a search for in celebration, they got to have tick, tick, tick, they got to have all these ticks. And so in designing the search for like, how can we do this and not make it terrible? – Yeah, that would be a task for sure. Hopefully we’ve done the best job we can. – Look, I reckon you have as far as the best job you can do. ‘Cause there was a number of things in there. And you look at the whole, I don’t know if it’s called a syllabus, but I’m gonna call it a syllabus. When you have to just hit a pass on 100, it felt like heaps of markers across over a dozen assignments. I went, yeah, they really need to tick every box. So you’ll walk away going, I can do this. Because the last thing you want to do, especially when you study something like along the lines of being a celebrant and then going into the world and just like, hey, start your own business, go. There’s a whole bunch you need to be prepared or at least aware of. So by the end, there were moments that I was bashing my head against the wall thinking either this is tedious or am I gonna use it? But I tell you, I reckon I’ve used most of it. So huge props to you. (laughs) – Yeah, I’ve got to be honest, zero props to me, 100 props to Sarah. I’m just the guy that turns the light in the fridge off and on. – Absolutely, and Sarah is a legend of the game and having her number on speed dial is very handy and reaching out and having a chat when things, when you have questions and that sort of stuff or having all the materials that have been put together as well. – It’s funny you mentioned that. We’ve obviously got the celebrant. There’s the Celebrant Institute RTO, which is what you’ve studied through. And then there’s the Celebrant Institute membership, which is kind of post study for your practice as a celebrant. And the premise of it literally is just basically to have Sarah on speed dial. And I’m just grateful to have her on speed dial as a friend and a learner as a business planner. (laughs) She’s an asset. – In a huge way. And, but like, you know, I think that whole website I found such use out of in terms of seeing the camaraderie and having blog posts on like, hey, let’s talk PA systems, or let’s talk charging people money and like having a pre, like having a dialogue from a year ago or two years ago, or five days ago to go through and go, hey, I’m not alone in this. People are thinking the same way I’m thinking, have the same concerns that I have and have, if I can, you know, blow a bit of wind up your trousers skirt there, saying you are legends of the game, having answers for these questions that we have. – I’ll humbly accept that, thank you. (laughs) – I feel the bell, yeah. (laughs) – Look, you mentioned money. That’s, I love talking to people about money, just on a general sense, just between friends because I feel it’s the big, it’s the big no-no, like we can talk about religion and politics these days, but for the love of God, don’t talk about money. – Don’t ask how much someone owns, yeah. – Yeah, yeah. And I’m not gonna ask you how much you own, but there’s this aspect of celebrancy that you do the search for, you do the application, you get the letter in the mail saying you’re all G, and there’s a moment where you’ve gotta take it to market. Roll out your, kind of your go-to market, call it a plan, or even just your thoughts on how they’ve evolved since you saw Damon to now. (laughs) – Yeah, right? – Yeah, like how has it evolved about taking yourself to market, getting that booking, charging a buck, that kind of thing. – That’s it, what a journey it’s been in terms of my first ceremony I did was on the 22nd of May last year. So we’re basically coming up on this year in review, being that I think I got the email saying, all right, go for it in late April. I had this ceremony, friend of mine, I found out I was doing the studies and went, you’re gonna be free on this date. And I said, yeah, probably. Let’s see how much of this assignments I can get through. And by the time I sent off the cert for, it’s gotta go off to the Attorney General’s office and stuff, we were pulling it real fine. Of course, it’s the Noim, the month in advance, and we had to have backup plans ’cause I was either getting this email and we could run off and sign the Noim and get started, or we had to get someone else to sign it and transfer it over to my name in the three week period before their ceremony. So that was pretty stressful, but a real fun sort of jumping off point to get certified, get a wedding under your belt, and then go, okay, I can do this in a legal and ceremonial sense. ‘Cause I think the first one is really important. And it’s hopefully for everyone out there, doing the studies, have a friend or colleague or someone kind of lined up because I wouldn’t know what to do. The first one, friend. Second one, friend of a friend. Third one, a mate’s cousin. It was about my fourth or fifth wedding that I did that was someone found me organically, and they were the most wonderful and organized person. They found me off the Attorney General’s registry of all celebrants in Australia. 100%. I went, what is, I’ve never, amazing. – You were just clicking through all 10,000 celebrants. – Right, and somehow landed on this bloke. – Yeah. – And they land on my rudimentary website that I just slapped together off GoDaddy. Yes, that was it. So that was kind of the thing. The benefit of doing the studies was it did, it is kind of well sorted out being like, cool, do legals, think about planning ceremonies, think about formal words and all that stuff. And then it goes, all right, now start thinking about businesses, have you got an ABN? Have you got a website? So you kind of get a lot of that going. Of course, you’re gonna advertise as a practicing celebrant until you are, but a lot of it is like a real watch this space type thing. So the second that my website went up, they were right on it. And so then I went, okay, now how do I get people to find me? And that was a hit and miss or just kind of a real shotgun shot in the dark type thing. I started just putting money into places, trying to get it out there. And if I got immediate responses back, which largely I did, I kept it going. If I didn’t for like two or three months, I scrapped it. Basically, for the large part, if I put money into it, I saw money come out of it, which was really positive. So every dollar I put into Google ads, someone said, Hey, I just saw you out on Google. Every dollar I saw of going into Instagram and Facebook ads, someone, you’d get X followers and then a DM. I’ve joined a few celebrant registries, god me, the name escapes me now for like websites and stuff. Directories. They’re the ones, yeah. And I’ve seen some work come out of that or the very least enough work that I go, cool, I’ve got money out of putting my name on these websites. You can’t go all over them ’cause there’s probably a certain Venn diagram ism to it where someone’s gonna see your face in a number of places, but combination of being a bit reserved, but also sort of going out there, you know? And here we are with the year ahead is looking big for me. So this year just been has been, oh goodness, I probably should have got my number down, but I’ve done a fistful, a dozen, or maybe a little over that sort of weddings. And the next 12 months, you know, we’ve got about 30 coming up, which is really exciting. So to see that sort of growth there, and I don’t know what the 12 months after that’s gonna look like, but you put the effort in and you go up and up and up from there, hopefully. – Money is a good lead in and share as much or as little as you want, I’m not really, I’m not here to getcha. But the money side of it, as much as money is a marketing story, it’s also a product story. You know, there’s a, we were in Baja, California, so Carbo San Lucas a few weeks ago, and there’s a hotel there that has a $500 US, $500 US taco, and I did not buy it, just to clear everything up. And just ’cause I couldn’t imagine, like as much as the $500 taco, very much as a marketing story, in the end, I’m gonna drop down 500 or close to 700 Australian. And I’m just putting a bloody taco in my mouth. So money, yeah, yeah, okay, I don’t know what kind of meal I could spend $500 on, I just, I’d probably be pretty hard to pony a $500 for a meal for myself. – Yeah, oh yeah. – Yeah, talking about money and leading to the product side of things. ‘Cause the marketing story is important, and that narrative is really important. But for you, the obvious answer is, you’re selling yourself as a celebrant, but how does your product differentiate from others in a broad sense? – Yeah, well– – And obviously the money comes into that as well. – Of course, yeah, so when you start off, you’re just a very green celebrant that has to market themselves as, basically, I had to go in with, “Cheap, give me work please.” I’ll say, “Yes, say do you wear anything you need me to do “to do your wedding?” And from there, that energy kind of rolled over into the idea behind, like writing ceremonies that people want, rather than the ceremony that everyone thinks of when they think of wedding, this non-traditionalism route that I think a lot of people sort of wanting more of these days. For every to-have-and-to-hold-for-death-do-you-part, there’s a stand-up comic quasi-routine coming out there. And as much as I’m not that far onto the bombastic side of things, a little bit of sitting down and talking with couples and individuals and say, “Well, what do you want? “What actually do you want to get out of this?” As a celebrant, we have a surprising amount of insight in terms of knowing what has to legally go into a wedding. And apart from that, “Well, what do you want out of this half-hour, 40-minute, “whole evening that people are planning and building?” So when I started, it was very much commercially competitive. Hire me just because you’ve got to hire someone. And a lot of that had quite quick turnarounds. People going, “Hey, we want to get married in three months, “four months, two months, “and we just look at for a celebrant.” And I was free, a lot of celebrants get booked out, right? And I was also cost-effective. But from there, as I developed that, developed my processes, got way better at writing ceremonies and having insight into what makes a good ceremony and the little things that you build, playlists for song recommendations and all the things that are out there. But if you make them your own, then it’s an addition to the product that you can give to them. How to write vow packs, there’s dozens of websites out there. But if you have your own, you can then give that to them and say, “This is also something you don’t have to go looking. “You’ve got it all there as an attachment or an email “that I can send you.” As that’s grown, as I’ve really pushed the narrative of not copy and pasting anything, I suppose, as much as a lot of things are commonly used, we all, not all, but most ceremonies have an asking moment, the I do moment, they have a ring ceremony at some point, usually. So there’s only so many, what’s the sentence, ’cause I was my skinner cat or something like that. Yeah, there’s only so many ways you can say, a ring is a circle and that means I love you, I suppose. But you play around with it and you say, the customizability, I suppose, is one thing that I can play with. ‘Cause at the moment, I’ve got time to sit there and pour hours into a ceremony. We’ll see how that goes in the next 12, 24 X years down the track, maybe I’ll continue to get better at it and have a bank of styles and things to use. So yeah, as that’s grown, as I’ve become more confident and delivering a better product, my price has reflected that. So it started a hyper competitive foot in the door, that was noteworthy to, well, hang on, if I’m gonna put a number of hours into this, if I’m gonna take Fridays and Saturdays of my time and social thing, you start to have that confidence and go, no, I wanna be fairly enumerated. And then you wanna be, you wanna step in and you actually have a dollar value, sort of represent you and what you think you’re worth. As much as a $500 taco is gonna be a very particular person buying it. But there’s that sort of middle ground where you go, if there was, I don’t know what the dollar amount is, but if there was an expensive taco out there, sometimes you look at it and go, hey, that might be a really good taco. It’s within the natural, the economic value of a taco. But you go, how good can a taco be for 20 bucks, 40 bucks? Where do you sit? What taco are you providing these people? We’re right into the metaphor now. I’m ankle deep, I’m waiting through it. – As someone who’s lived in Mexico for the last six months, I’m here for the taco metaphor. (laughing) – Yeah. But that’s it, it’s the same. I would often talk to people about it, talking about like whiskey or wine has like a similar thing there being like, you’ve got whiskey that is strictly like whiskey and Coke whiskey. You’ve gotta, I’ll just alter it, you’re gonna change it. It’s gonna be what you know, and there’s no expectation there. And then as you sort of move through different types of whiskeys, there’s a certain point where you need to have a really discerning palate or whatever, if you wanna like, you know, wave your hands around while you do it. And then there’s this upper end whiskey that I think anyone would look at and go, you’re not buying that for whiskey. You’re buying that to sit on a shelf. And I don’t know where that takes the metaphor, but (laughing) that’s a valuable way to finish that sentence, yeah. – As someone who appreciates a whiskey, I can tell you that there’s no easy way to finish this sentence about whiskey, you should just keep on going. (laughing) But I will wrap up the podcast on this note. I am, there’s people listening to this that have been a celebrant for 20 years, and I hope that they’re revitalized by your energy. But if you could wrap up with the encouragement to the person who’s thinking about becoming a celebrant, because I’ll give mine that I would tell anyone, anyone that asks me about whether they should become a celebrant or not. My first thought is actually to do what Robin Williams did. Robin Williams famously, when people would ask whether they should become a comedian, he would say no. And his bit was that if Robin Williams saying no is the thing that stops you becoming a comedian, you were never gonna make it in the first place. – Heck yeah. – Yeah, which I love. – That’s got such a great, yeah, absolutely. – But I don’t do that ’cause apparently that can sound like you’re an asshole. (laughing) So my actual encouragement is a little bit more encouraging that there’s enough average celebrants. There’s enough cheap celebrants, there’s enough, people that just don’t really care or aren’t passionate. And I’m not really calling anyone, I’m just saying there’s enough of those people. That market is looked after. The market that isn’t a full year, the market that is still aching for more talent is that upper end of the market of people that really care, that are really passionate and is desperately in need of great celebrants. So that’s what it says to you or anyone else. That’s the void waiting to be filled. But I’ll let you end on this. What’s your encouragement to someone thinking about becoming a celebrant today? – That’s great advice. My two cents is, yeah, find something that you’re going to get fulfillment from. It is an incredible thing to do for two people. Weddings are a highlight of some people’s lives and you get to be a part of that. Everyone you meet is at an absolute high point in their life. Two people that are in love or looking to start a dynasty or something like that. So you will only work with wonderful people that tend to be incredibly passionate in love that are looking to make something really wonderful. So if that sounds good to you, I’d dive into it. – Lucky, that’s such a good ending. Thank you. Give us a shout out. What’s your social and website and that kind of thing. – Weddings by the Beard. It is everywhere you’re going to find it, including on the bathroom sink after I shave, Instagram, Facebook, online. Thank you so much for having me.